Pictures of Cheshunt

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The Sweetcorn Kid
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Pictures of Cheshunt

Post by The Sweetcorn Kid »

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SK
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Mark
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Re: Pictures of Cheshunt

Post by Mark »

Where abouts is it SK.
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The Sweetcorn Kid
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Re: Pictures of Cheshunt

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John Andrews 20lb 3oz Common from Cheshunt Reservoir. 6th September 1916

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Not far from the centre of London lies Cheshunt Reservoir. Jack Hilton described it in "Quest For Carp".....

"There was an air of mystery about the place, as with most of the old carp waters...it was like entering another world where only the leap of a Carp could interupt one's tranquil thoughts."

At 10 acres its not a huge water by any means. Here is Mr Andrew's account of the capture...

I rose at 4am on September 9th, had a cup of tea and went to the swim about 5am. I had hardly settled down before I had the run, I struck, and was fast into a big fish. It was an exciting moment for me, as directly the fish felt the hook go home, he made a terrific dash and tore fifty yards of line off the reel and then turned right for some yards and burried himself in the matted weed. Fortunatley for me he lay there and sulked thinking he was safe. I yelled to another member fishing on the other side of the lake for help, and as the fish kept in the weeds it gave me tme to get the punt, and fight him yard by yard in the weeds, until I got him into open water again, where after some time (quite an hour) I brought himto the landing net. As he lay in the bottom of the punt he was a Carp to be proud of-a perfectly shaped Golden bronze fish- 31 inches length 23 inches girth, and over 6 inches through the shoulders. The carp weighed 20lb 3oz, and is, I believe, the record Carp for English waters. I have not got the biggest fish I have seen at Cheshunt by a long way, and next year will try again, and see if I can't capture one quite 25lb, if not more.


John Andrews Carp was "Set Up" by John cooper and sons Taxidermist, here is the advert from the Anglers News October 7th 1916...

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Sadly in 2004 Cheshunt Reservoir was drained, here is the BBC website story on the incident.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/art ... ture.shtml
SK
The Compleat Tangler

“Imagination is the real magic that exists in this world. Look inwards to see outwards. And capture it in writing.”

Nigel 'Fennel' Hudson



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Mark
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Re: Pictures of Cheshunt

Post by Mark »

What a shame to end up as a housing estate.
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where you find only elder trees, nettles and dreams. (BB - Denys Watkins-Pitchford).

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The Sweetcorn Kid
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Re: Pictures of Cheshunt

Post by The Sweetcorn Kid »

Very sad!!!

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SK
The Compleat Tangler

“Imagination is the real magic that exists in this world. Look inwards to see outwards. And capture it in writing.”

Nigel 'Fennel' Hudson



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Gary Bills
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Re: Pictures of Cheshunt

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I can't believe they did this to Cheshunt! Someone must have cocked up in not fighting this application, if only because it was a wildlife haven and probably had rare species - dragonflies and butterflies perhaps - in need of stern protection..I would have loved to fish Cheshunt in the years, say 1910 to 1920 - if only because the commons were so beautiful and so intriguing. What were those fish - wildies or kings? I believe the lovely commons were there in the 1870s, before Thomas Ford - so, not king carp in the modern sense? Then what? Surely they were not wildies - 20lb is a big common, but for a wildie...? I'll set another hare going here, if I may - and feel free to cry nonsense: but has anyone looked at the dorsal fins of carp, and how they differ? The Victorian carp, judging by stuffed examples, and wildies - judging by photographs, seem to have that near straight edge at the start of the dorsal, an edge almost level with the spine. The dorsals of Leneys and other kings are usually quite different... For comparion, look at Ravioli's dorsal, on the images when it is raised... Be warned - dorsal spotting as a pastime leads to madness, but it is enjoyable on dark winter evenings and I think that some of the findings may bear fruit, in terms of our understanding of carp heritage.

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Re: Pictures of Cheshunt

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I thought I'd best explain myself a little more, regarding carp dorsals. Here's a dear little common from Ashperton - a water reputed to be a Leney water..
another little Leney.jpg
The "step" at the front of the dorsal, the rise and fall, is quite clear. It is almost a triangle before the long slope which is the rest of the dorsal.. This "step" is usually missing on Victorian/Edwardian fish; - look at images of Overbeck's Croxby fish, and look at the image of the Andrews fish from Cheshunt. Is that straighter edge at the start of the dorsal indicative of an older, pre-King strain?
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DontKnowMuch
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Re: Pictures of Cheshunt

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The only 'step' I've seen or heard about when identifying carp as either kings or wildies is the 'step' directly behind the head fb. Kevin Clifford has conducted some quite in depth research concerning 'wild' carp and in his opinion there are no genuine wildies here in the UK. The strain generally acknowledged as being a true wildie is the indigenous variety in the area directly around the Danube. For years these fish were unaffected by cross breeding with king carp also present due to the fact that they spawned in totally different areas (gravel beds up river) to those used by the king carp. After 'redesigning' of the river by man this situation has sadly altered allowing cross breeding.

What we call wildies are likely to be slim, stunted, feral versions of carp stocked a long time ago in pools, moats and the like.

Even the fish in Brayton Pool, which advertises them as wildies, are unfortunately not the real deal.

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Gary Bills
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Re: Pictures of Cheshunt

Post by Gary Bills »

Dontknowmuch wrote:The only 'step' I've seen or heard about when identifying carp as either kings or wildies is the 'step' directly behind the head fb. Kevin Clifford has conducted some quite in depth research concerning 'wild' carp and in his opinion there are no genuine wildies here in the UK. The strain generally acknowledged as being a true wildie is the indigenous variety in the area directly around the Danube. For years these fish were unaffected by cross breeding with king carp also present due to the fact that they spawned in totally different areas (gravel beds up river) to those used by the king carp. After 'redesigning' of the river by man this situation has sadly altered allowing cross breeding.

What we call wildies are likely to be slim, stunted, feral versions of carp stocked a long time ago in pools, moats and the like.

Even the fish in Brayton Pool, which advertises them as wildies, are unfortunately not the real deal.
I agree with most of that, DKM, thank you - but it is still very absorbing and illuminating: looking at the dorsal shapes of large Victorian/Edwardian commons (in cases and photographs); and comparing them to modern kings - usually the marked difference I have described above can be noted... And we still lack the knowledge and terminology for big "Pre-King" carp, such as the initial Cheshunt stock and the Croxby fish...I suspect that these were the product of quite advanced selective breeding well before Thomas Ford, perhaps over 100 years before - but who bred these "Old English Commons"? Cheshunt, I believe, was only built in the 1830s - so who provided the carp? Is there a significant fish breeder/importer still to be discovered?
The Andrews fish is quite a stocky fish, isn't it? It's certainly not a Wildie, in any sense.
I would have loved to have seen it alive...

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DontKnowMuch
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Re: Pictures of Cheshunt

Post by DontKnowMuch »

The Croxby fish definately had nothing to do with Thomas Ford. I may be able to dig up some information concerning the original stocking there as I know a chap who's a real Croxby buff and has spent a considerable amount of time on research.

In the meantime the photo below should definately be in the Cheshunt thread.

Image

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