Wallis casting as lockdown skill

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Mole-Patrol
Grayling
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Re: Wallis casting as lockdown skill

Post by Mole-Patrol » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:52 pm

Dave, thank you for posting those videos. However I am even more confused now then before. In the third one your thumb can be seen to release the spool just about as the rod is vertical with presumably the lead still behind the tip? From what you say you are slipping the spool slightly prior to release?

The rod has been compressed far more than a cane rod could safely be in the first half second or so after you begin the cast but after what looks like the release there is only just over 1 second of flight before the over run. I was looking back at the casts I made last week and at a measured 20 yds the lead was in flight for approximately 2 seconds which corresponds with the same sort of timing to distance that Marston & Crossle found when they were designing their reel; 3 seconds for 30 yards. I have a plan to try again in a few days time, but thanks for the food for thought.

BTW; Looks like I owe you about 20 yards of line and possibly a lead weight :Hahaha:

Snape, he practise of putting the reel on the side of the rod so to speak was described by Marston in The Fishing Gazette around 1912. By this time the Casting Club had been in operation a few years and its ranks joined by the Hardy brothers who used their time and position to test, design and make rods and reels suitable for breaking records. In those days the dream outfit for the bait casting classes was a Hardy Murdoch cane rod and a Silex reel. The Murdoch had its reel seat about two-thirds of the way down the handle and the reel was controlled by the lower hand. The reel was mounted as described by Marston as having its handles uppermost when the rod rings were down. In other words on its side. Also the line came off from the top. Marston commented that to retrieve they would put the reel uppermost and wind in the wrong way around. The reel mount would have reduced friction on the line between the reel and first ring. Effectively the set up was designed purely for casting and not for fishing.

They came up with the overhead cast as the swing cast was not accurate enough. The casting zone was a triangle measuring 100 yards in length and 30 yards at its widest point, 100 yards from the angler. Each angler had five minutes to make five casts and it was found that with some of the best casters only 3 out of 5 casts landed in the zone and so were eligible for counting towards their aggregate of the best three casts. Given that they were casting 60 yds to 70 yds on average then the zone would be approx' 20 yards wide at that range. Obviously a casual swing isn't likely to test the accuracy, but when going for longer distances it must have made a difference.

When I was playing with different styles and set ups yesterday I came to the conclusion that increasing the casting weight did not always result in greater distances. I could cast almost as far with an 8g Catherine lead towing a float than with a 12g leaded cork or 15g pure lead weight. Once I got to a certain weight with each outfit the distance went backwards. Given that I had used four rods and two reels, now three reels, different strengths and types of line and different weights in a combination I conclude that the comfortable achievable distance for me is around 20 to 25 yards. At that I can put almost every cast into a 6 foot diameter ring, and without over runs and tangles. When I push that beyond it becomes increasingly erratic. Over 30 yards and whilst the side to side accuracy doesn't suffer much, the length of the casts does spread out more.

For me, the best outfit for range and accuracy was the Chapmans 500 with a 15g weight and 20lb braid (plus shock leader). Going up to the Mk.4 with the same reel and line did not give me any better results even with more weight, nor did the 12 foot Fox carp rod or the 12' 6" Greys bass rod. And using a modern ball race reel with drag did nothing to improve things for me over the Trudex.

Later on this week I am going to work on the slippage method described by Dave but with J. T. Elliot's 'casting high' technique. And a different rod. :Hahaha:
Regards, Clive

I tread the paths where no-one goes and cast to fish nobody knows

(If I had realised how busy retirement would be, I'd have carried on working!)

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Dave Burr
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Re: Wallis casting as lockdown skill

Post by Dave Burr » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:38 pm

Mole-Patrol wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:52 pm
Dave, thank you for posting those videos. However I am even more confused now then before. In the third one your thumb can be seen to release the spool just about as the rod is vertical with presumably the lead still behind the tip? From what you say you are slipping the spool slightly prior to release?

The rod has been compressed far more than a cane rod could safely be in the first half second or so after you begin the cast but after what looks like the release there is only just over 1 second of flight before the over run. I was looking back at the casts I made last week and at a measured 20 yds the lead was in flight for approximately 2 seconds which corresponds with the same sort of timing to distance that Marston & Crossle found when they were designing their reel; 3 seconds for 30 yards. I have a plan to try again in a few days time, but thanks for the food for thought.

BTW; Looks like I owe you about 20 yards of line and possibly a lead weight :Hahaha:
As I explained in my post MP, I was using a reel with no brake. It was the first reel I came to and was loaded with 15LB mono, it's actually my carp stalking go to reel and not an ideal tool for bunging a 1oz lead on a 1.25lb TC barbel rod. That is why I had to use my thumb as the spool was way too loose to do a proper overhead cast. The flight of the cast was short but it did demonstrate the method - up to a point.

I did do a few really nice casts of well over 20yrs not filmed - and one that I thought had it 'in the can' but that's life. I wasn't going for distance, just to demonstrate technique. To have gone for the big heave-ho would have annoyed the neighbours.... and their property. It's also an ages since I've fished so it's prudent to build up the 'pin casting and get into the rhythm.

If you do try the overhead, let the weight find it's own way by building the speed up slowly and distance will increase with experience. But don't use cane unless maybe something really heavy.

I hope todays efforts don't count as a fishing trip as I blanked.

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Mole-Patrol
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Re: Wallis casting as lockdown skill

Post by Mole-Patrol » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:58 pm

Yes, I have a few new ideas to try out later on next week. Interesting that the rod was 1.25lb tc as I found my 'sweet' rod was at the lighter end of the scale. One Okuma Trent is my 'go to' carp stalking reel and the other one is my catfish reel. Double bearings and the smoothest disc drag you would find. It only just loses out to the Penn 760l in a straight head-to-head tug of war but is smoother to give line on lighter settings than any other reel I have. But loaded with 12lb mono against the 20lb braid of the Trudex I think gave the older reel the advantage in the casting field.
Regards, Clive

I tread the paths where no-one goes and cast to fish nobody knows

(If I had realised how busy retirement would be, I'd have carried on working!)

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Danesman
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Re: Wallis casting as lockdown skill

Post by Danesman » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:12 am

Would like to say a BIG THANK YOU to you Clive for your superb video. Other videos have made the WC appear to be a very complicated affair whereas you have shown it to be the complete opposite. :Hat:
In the space of 2hrs I went from total novice to 15yds. It was very noticable how straight and accurate the cast was every time, I realize this may well change on the bank lol. I achieved this with a 1/2 oz lead on my Chapman 550 ( waiting for my microwave motor to arrive so that I can build a rod turner and get on with the varnishing ) with a Trudex loaded with 8lb line. I used this on a glass rod of approx 1 1/4lb tc with a 1oz lead achieving a greater distance but not a dramatic increase.
I soon learnt to concentrate on the technique and the distance will come

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Mole-Patrol
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Re: Wallis casting as lockdown skill

Post by Mole-Patrol » Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:27 pm

Danesman wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:12 am
Would like to say a BIG THANK YOU to you Clive for your superb video. Other videos have made the WC appear to be a very complicated affair whereas you have shown it to be the complete opposite. :Hat:
In the space of 2hrs I went from total novice to 15yds. It was very noticable how straight and accurate the cast was every time, I realize this may well change on the bank lol. I achieved this with a 1/2 oz lead on my Chapman 550 ( waiting for my microwave motor to arrive so that I can build a rod turner and get on with the varnishing ) with a Trudex loaded with 8lb line. I used this on a glass rod of approx 1 1/4lb tc with a 1oz lead achieving a greater distance but not a dramatic increase.
I soon learnt to concentrate on the technique and the distance will come
Brilliant! I am so pleased for you. :Thumb:

Now that you have got over the mental block regards perceived difficulty you will have no problem perfecting the technique.
Regards, Clive

I tread the paths where no-one goes and cast to fish nobody knows

(If I had realised how busy retirement would be, I'd have carried on working!)

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