MKIV S/U

[Julian]

Many years ago I bought a S/U for I think £150, which completed my rather extensive collection of B James rods. Even then they were not too common, probably because they were not a popular rod when they were new. My rod had been owned by Reg Cooke the well known illustrator responsible for the terrific drawings in No Need To Lie. It was well marked Reg Cooke Melbourne, his home town in Derbyshire.

Having spend a fair while sourcing an almost mint example, together with provenance of being owned by a well know angling illustrator, I rather disliked the rod. It was just too stiff for any fishing that I was ever likely to do and so didn't have a place in my rod rack. I remember likening it to something that Fatima Whitbread may have thrown at the Olympics.

That sale must go down with one of my many mistakes, if only for financial reasons. Snape, I hope you get on with yours and use it to catch a monster.

I think there are obvious reasons why there were not many B.James S/U MKIVs sold, but why there are still plenty in use.
When the S/U rods were first made ( 1956 maybe?) up until when B.James ceased making them ( early or mid 1960's) quite a few anglers probably bought them who already had the Avon and Carp B.James rods , regardless of whether they would get much use or not.
However the main reason it was never going to be a big seller at that time was that there were so few anglers who had access to waters that contained large carp (eg 20lb plus) mainly because there were actually so few large carp in total.
So not a big seller, but for those that were purchased often they had little or no use, and therefore likely that at a high proportion of S/U rods bought in the 50's and early 60's still exist today.

Julian,
I was probably wrongly under the impression that they were made for pike fishing. They would certainly be able to chuck a whole herring and well capable of coping with the largest pike, which were far more common than carp back in the day.

Perhaps they were originally made for pike fishing, but I have only read/ heard of anglers buying them to fish for big carp.

[RBTraditional]

Test curves are obtuse things and hard to measure. One of my new built MkIVs has a test curve of both 1.5lbs and 2lbs. How come? Well it's very hard to tell when the rod has really entered the 90 angle. I tried, with assistance, to do so. It hit the 1.5lbs mark easily but when I put a real fighting curve into the rod it pretty much remained at the same 90 degrees but with a digitally measured 2lb pull.

I know you folks are more skilled anglers than I am but I'm very nervous about using over stiff rods for carp fishing as I have genuine concerns about hook pulls and mouth damage. The notion of using a rod with a 3 or even 4lb test curve does make me wince somewhat. Is such a brutally stiff rod really necessary? (Runs and hides!)

I have an 11' foot cane carp rod which is a 2lb rated modern Chapman blank. Due to the extra length, over a MkIV, I can get a lot more control over the fish and it's powerful enough to turn hard fighting quick fish in the 14 – 18lb bracket from snags. Due to the length it doesn't feel over stiff just, I suppose powerful but compliant.

I agree with your concerns regarding stiff rods Beresford. I too wouldn't use anything heavier than a standard MK1V. With a properly loaded pin, 10 or 12lb line you'll stop anything that is likely to swim (legaly) in British freshwater.....for me the pin is the key to giving greater control over big fish even in snaggy weedy water.

[Julian]

Julian,

Thanks for your explanation. I found that using a longer rod helped in similar circumstances as you get put pressure more over the head of the fish. I found that I can and have literally turned a 15b carp over backwards with my 2lbs test curve rod. At the time I thought crikey this rod is just too strong so I don't use it until the end of the season when the lilies have grown tough.

There is a fabulous water close to my home which has opened up recently although a mature lake. I really wanted to fish there but the owners specify lines of 14lbs minimum which rather rules out using MkIVs. When fishing 16lb line with floaters I presume you are always fishing in and around snags and not open water?

difficult for me to comment regarding your 2lb TC 11 ft cane rod as I have never fished with a cane rod that falls into the range of 2.75lb TCto 2.5lb TC. Unfortunately thate are no B.james rods that fill that gap ( as far as I know ) , so the S/U was my choice as the anglers who own them and use them do seem to comment on them very highly.

Yes, it is always in and around snags when I use 16 lb line- its far too visible to the fish in open water. However nearly all of my carp fishing is onthe surface, close to snags. In fact most othe anglers cant believe how I catch fish in some of the 'swims' I favour.
At the Mill Pool there is a very small 'swim' that everyone sees as its right next to the entrance. Its at a corner of the lake and is a small gap betwen the bank and a long dense line of bushes that overhang well under the water. The gap under the bushes is less than four feet wide and the other members never fish it, but there are always carp there and I have caught many from it ( and lost quite a few - nearly all to hookpulls or abrasion break offs ( ie the line invariably is pulled against a branch).

You really should fish at the lake you describe with your 2lb TC rod and the minimum 14lb line - you may be missing a great opportunity.

[Julian]

Test curves are obtuse things and hard to measure. One of my new built MkIVs has a test curve of both 1.5lbs and 2lbs. How come? Well it's very hard to tell when the rod has really entered the 90 angle. I tried, with assistance, to do so. It hit the 1.5lbs mark easily but when I put a real fighting curve into the rod it pretty much remained at the same 90 degrees but with a digitally measured 2lb pull.

I know you folks are more skilled anglers than I am but I'm very nervous about using over stiff rods for carp fishing as I have genuine concerns about hook pulls and mouth damage. The notion of using a rod with a 3 or even 4lb test curve does make me wince somewhat. Is such a brutally stiff rod really necessary? (Runs and hides!)

I have an 11' foot cane carp rod which is a 2lb rated modern Chapman blank. Due to the extra length, over a MkIV, I can get a lot more control over the fish and it's powerful enough to turn hard fighting quick fish in the 14 – 18lb bracket from snags. Due to the length it doesn't feel over stiff just, I suppose powerful but compliant.

I agree with your concerns regarding stiff rods Beresford. I too wouldn't use anything heavier than a standard MK1V. With a properly loaded pin, 10 or 12lb line you'll stop anything that is likely to swim (legaly) in British freshwater.....for me the pin is the key to giving greater control over big fish even in snaggy weedy water.

I understand what you are saying RBT but there are many circumstances when fishing for large carp that 12lb line is not enough. Its irrelevant what reel you have if a large carp surges off to a snag only a few feet away. If you give it any line it buries in the snags and is lost in seconds. If you stop it on 12lb line in those circumstances it will continue and break the line also in a few seconds.The reason the line breaks in these circumstances is that it is often being pulled at an angle against branches or thick lily stems/roots, so abrasion takes place.
I would be very interested to know how you would overcome this problem simply because you are fishing with a centrepin,and if you do actually fish for large carp on the surface in very snaggy swims.

[Wallys-Cast]

I have had two S/u MKIV rods and they were both beasts of rods and more than capable of throwing heavy leads or large dead baits.

I did a test curve check as explained in most books and the full 90 degree angle between tip and butt was not achieved until a pull of over 5lbs was applied. One of the rods was almost 7lbs until I could say for certain a full 90 degrees had been reached. This is the same suggested test curve as the Dennis Pye 700.

I tried a few popular rods and most carp rods were slightly over the suggested t/c. A Chapman 550 was almost 2lb and out of four B James MKIV rods I have tried they were between 1lb 6oz and 1lb 10oz. I tried a few modern rods and all were within an ounce or two of their stated test curve.


Wal.

[Beresford]

Julian,

What brand of line are you using? I've always sworn by Pro Gold and use 10lb – it's a tough as old boots. I don't suffer line breaks in weeds and snags, more that when a fish gets its head down and ploughs through lilies it sheds the hook.

I honestly don't think my reactions are fast enough for your kind of fishing. If I hook a carp in 18" of water within a foot or two of the bank, in a swim closed in by lilies all around, the fish reacts to the hook faster than I can react to its first run, even if I'm prepared and precisely control setting the hook.

What I like about fishing in close with the longer 11' rod is the ability to exert pressure from a wider range of angles and that can get a fish moving again. However, it's not the nicest rod to use as it feels a bit top heavy.

The best B. James rod I've handled and should have bought, was a standard MkIV carp friend had. He'd measured the test curve at bang on 2lbs. It was a 1960's one but the cane was fabulously alive and returned to straight almost with a kick.

As RBTraditional writes, I do use a pin in close but I've not really mastered the near hook and hold technique with it. I shall have fun experimenting with techniques this summer. If I sound totally hopeless I'm not that bad as I do catch some fish and I tend to favour tricky swims that others ignore, as the carp feed far more freely in such situations.

I have caught a 25lb carp in close using a standard MkIV carp rod that never had any problems keeping on top of the situation. The fish was neither fast nor particularly cunning. However, it did keep slowly plodding along for a long time. For me it's the fish in the 14 – 18lb range that cause the most bother. They are small enough to remain fast but large enough to have sufficient mass to cause me all sorts of bother. All great fun.

[Reedling]

Re margin fishing for Carp, before I put a bait in I always think to myself is there a real chance that my prey is going to damage itself by getting caught up in obstacles such as branches etc, and do I realistically see me netting the fish without too much pressure, ie hit and hold! If there is any element of doubt despite the anticipated excitement I walk away. I don't live in a dream world, at some point a fish will snag you especially where there are reeds but I try not too put myself and the fish under undue stress.

[GregF]

Interesting debate. Having used both versions of the B James carp rods for a couple of years, I am of the opinion that for big carp in snaggy or heavily weeded situations, the standard Mk4 lacks the backbone required and the S/U is perhaps slightly overgunned. Comparing my S/U against modern carp rods I’d estimate it was a bit more powerful than my Harrisons, so probably around 3lb tc or marginally greater which, given the 10ft length makes it a just a bit too poky for anything but extreme situations. The rod barely reaches a proper fighting curve for much under 20 and low doubles seem to just give up. I generally use it only if I think a whopper is on the cards and even then I'm aware of its potential and take care not to force the issue unless absolutely necessary. There is some speculation/estimation here on my part because it's not been fully tested with a real big one yet, the largest I've landed with it being 24lb. The standard Mk4 is a completely different animal and an ideal rod for smaller carp. I can play doubles pretty hard with that and there’s no fear of hooks pulling out or mouth damage. Hook a big one near snags though (not in them – I’m with Reedling on that) and it’s a bit hairy to say the least and I feel I could do with a fraction more power (line strength being an issue here too). If there was an 11ft 2.5lb tc cane rod available, provided the tapers were right I reckon it could be the perfect, balanced big carp rod. Beresford’s Chapman sounds like it comes pretty close to this ideal, though I’m guessing it’s a custom built rod built to personal specifications? A gap in the market perhaps?

[JAA]

I understand what you are saying RBT but there are many circumstances when fishing for large carp that 12lb line is not enough. Its irrelevant what reel you have if a large carp surges off to a snag only a few feet away. If you give it any line it buries in the snags and is lost in seconds. If you stop it on 12lb line in those circumstances it will continue and break the line also in a few seconds.The reason the line breaks in these circumstances is that it is often being pulled at an angle against branches or thick lily stems/roots, so abrasion takes place.
I would be very interested to know how you would overcome this problem simply because you are fishing with a centrepin,and if you do actually fish for large carp on the surface in very snaggy swims.

I used to think a 'pin was better for those life-and-death battles, but find in practice, a tough fixed spool, clutch set hard down, is more useful for shortening line in a hurry.

As you say Julian, once line gets around any kind of snag, it runs the risk of being abraded, but even if not abraded, the line passing over the snag removes the flex and shock absorption of the rod from the equation - often this is where the hook-hold goes. Its probably how fish seem to transfer hooks to branches - once the line is around said branch, the rod can't cushion the pull on the hook, out it comes and then being pulled around the branch by a straightening rod will stick the hook in it three times out of four.

In any event, stopping a fish requires the ability to absorb enough shock as the fish is decelerated, to prevent the strain on the line exceeding it's breaking strain. A softer rod introduces a lower deceleration to a moving fish, than a stiff one, keeping the strain on the line lower. As well as this, a softer rod shortens more than the stiffer rod (for the same length of rod) and this in turn allow you to put more pressure on a fish, as you can exert more force (parallelogram of forces).

Other factors come into play as well. I've had my line snapped a couple of times surface fishing at about 30-40 yards, by a 'crash-diving carp' - the line snapped with only the slightest tug on the rod - the surface tension of the water on a length of line essentially removed the rod from the equation.

Even with appropriate (strong) tackle, a force applied quickly enough can lead to the strain on the line exceeding the breaking strain before the inertia of the rod is overcome - if a large fish hits a bait 'on the run' and really snatches at it, this can happen. It's why, if fishing by snags, it is best to pile into the fish the moment it takes. It's safer to get it under the control of the rod's shock absorption, before it gets up any speed.

Having skull-dragged 'a few' large doubles in smallish swims, what worked best is a slow-action but powerful rod and the strongest line that does the job. It's why, hanging behind me, is a non-cane 10 foot 'stalking rod' made from the top two sections of a Bruce and Walker 15 foot 10-12aftm Salmon rod.

[Julian]

Julian,

What brand of line are you using? I've always sworn by Pro Gold and use 10lb – it's a tough as old boots. I don't suffer line breaks in weeds and snags, more that when a fish gets its head down and ploughs through lilies it sheds the hook.

I honestly don't think my reactions are fast enough for your kind of fishing. If I hook a carp in 18" of water within a foot or two of the bank, in a swim closed in by lilies all around, the fish reacts to the hook faster than I can react to its first run, even if I'm prepared and precisely control setting the hook.

What I like about fishing in close with the longer 11' rod is the ability to exert pressure from a wider range of angles and that can get a fish moving again. However, it's not the nicest rod to use as it feels a bit top heavy.

The best B. James rod I've handled and should have bought, was a standard MkIV carp friend had. He'd measured the test curve at bang on 2lbs. It was a 1960's one but the cane was fabulously alive and returned to straight almost with a kick.

As RBTraditional writes, I do use a pin in close but I've not really mastered the near hook and hold technique with it. I shall have fun experimenting with techniques this summer. If I sound totally hopeless I'm not that bad as I do catch some fish and I tend to favour tricky swims that others ignore, as the carp feed far more freely in such situations.

I have caught a 25lb carp in close using a standard MkIV carp rod that never had any problems keeping on top of the situation. The fish was neither fast nor particularly cunning. However, it did keep slowly plodding along for a long time. For me it's the fish in the 14 – 18lb range that cause the most bother. They are small enough to remain fast but large enough to have sufficient mass to cause me all sorts of bother. All great fun.

I use Terry Eustace pro gold clear for 16lb and Prestons reflo power for 11lb and 12.5 lb , always use main line straight through to the hook for carp fishing. Both of these makes are excellent line for surface fishing and in the absence of snags they are very difficult to break. Total confidence in both of them.