Sorting out the speedia...

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Nobby
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Re: Sorting out the speedia...

Post by Nobby » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:05 am

In first gear!

Beryl

Re: Sorting out the speedia...

Post by Beryl » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:41 pm

Nobby wrote:In first gear!
Only if you were trying to bump start it (again) :Thumb: Only had the humdrum 350cc item but It was a delight most of the time. After 18 months of delight I finally limped it to some specialist outlet on the south circular of London. Because I never mastered the clutch adjustment ( being a student with an adjustable) it was acting up a little to say the least. They took it for a test ride but didn't say a thing. Straight swop for some 'orrible Yam 350 that was fast and reliable. For a year it was a very reassuring to get there the day you thought you might. At the time I was working on the rigs out of Lowestoft and they didn't understand the magic of Velocette.

Anyways. I think the biggest gains are going to come from re profiling the pin rather than re-bushing. The bush is a tiddler but it does have a back surface that can be trapped and extracted. I came across and American firm that do a range of specific formers for these tiddly bushes. At 200 dollars and out of stock it's not my first port of call. But it does suggest the bush can be extracted intact. I did want to cut a bit out then wiggle it out like I used to do but it would be nice to not destroy stuff.

It's a humble reel. That simple post is 5.5mm which is exactly 7/32" . If I was creating a reel I would use something ready made. I don't know whether 7/32" is standard but you would just need to slip in a tool in the lathe to create the thread on one end then create the gaps for the release and the rubbing bit on the other. A half-moon profile for the tip, and the final cut off. That my thoughts aways. No sign of heat treatment either.

Been looking at pin wrenches today. If you want to re-profile the pin (Mine is a bit of a plateau rather than a peak) it needs to be free of the backplate? The cycle shops are expensive but the Reeltools adjustable looks promising. The 2.2mm pins are about right. They do a simpler 'red' model that is cheaper but can't find it in the UK

Just on the off chance my experimental reel will accept the shaft of a 2.5mm drill( The deluxe won't)The former does look messed about with. But... I'm thinking to drill two holes at the right distance apart though a 1/4" bit of steel I have. With a few attempts I might get the gap right. The drilled holes will be a little bigger than the shafts of the drills used as pins so some wiggle room there. Cheap trick worth a punt I'm thinking...

The Pin, once released from backplate needs a trim on the soft bit of the bench grinder then a session in the hand drill set at slow and profiling with a two grade oilstone. Ideally I should end up with just a 'spot' showing of the original plateau. I shan't be to bothered about the finish other than that spot. Rough will hold oil I'm thinking?

Onwards and upwards... Rather slowly in this case.

Anyways, it's spinning a humble forty secs. Can't see it going backwards

Beryl

Re: Sorting out the speedia...

Post by Beryl » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:43 pm

Nobby wrote:I used to polish the end of the grub screw and the tip of the centrepin spindle to a mirror finish with strips of cloth and a dab of Solvol Autosol...sort of buffing across as though you were shining your shoes. If there was any damage or witness marks I used to first polish them out with a small hand-held knife sharpening stone....I say 'used to' because now I'm not so sure it's the right way anymore.....


True, I had some splendid results but just recently I bought a very tidy Speedia on eBay and found that it had a little pit at the end on the centrepin as you often find but this reel spins and spins more than any other reel I have ever held. Just touch a handle and it will spin for a full minute! Give it a right old yank and it spins for wellover three minutes....a time I never thought possible!!

I've come to the conclusion that minimum contact area ....as provided by screw and centrepin having radiused contact areas.....might not be the right approach after all and a little pit, acting as a reservoir for some oil, gives better performance.

Hardy may have recognised this with their Conquest reel; instead of having a grub screw to control end-float they fitted a soft copper slug...you just tap it home to shape it to perfectly reflect the tip of the centrepin...giving a huge contact area that wears very slowly indeed as the co-efficient of friction is so low and spins perfectly.

I think the very last ones made had another metal there though...it doesn't look like copper....but this one shows the copper slug in the middle of the spool

http://englishflyreel.com/images/Hardy% ... %20001.JPG
My new Speedia deluxe span for four seconds. After copious delivery of thinners to clean out the gung and some sewing machine oil (nothing special in my honest opinion) it now spins for twenty seconds less than three minutes. The bush has some wear, the pin and bush contact when you first spin it.
It has the dimple in the top of the pin that is mentioned by nobby. I could create this if I had a lathe but, when I finally get the pin free of the backplate the tools I have can only recreate the original half-moon profile. Still interesting though.

You also have to wonder why some ended up with the dimple? My forty sec spinner has just worn off the half-moon profile with not a dimple in sight...

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SeanM
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Re: Sorting out the speedia...

Post by SeanM » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:50 pm

Ah the joys of tribology!!

A well worn, but clean and well balanced reel will always give case to the maximum possible spin time. Experimenting with oil films and bearing surfaces will give a slight improvement, but cleanliness, balance and good clearances are always the key to long spin times.
Quot homines, tot sententiae. (And now we are 6!)

Beryl

Re: Sorting out the speedia...

Post by Beryl » Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:03 pm

I'm still going for something that hasn't been used much. Tricky of course. I've a well worn example that spins for near three minutes with a shot plain bearing that is hardly doing much at all. I reckon if one can source a blind puller to pop out the solid bush, it's easy to source bronze bearing replacements. In fact I've sorted out that end. Just need the puller and you will have some speedia without that wobble and the attendant clunk that slows them down...

Beryl

Re: Sorting out the speedia...

Post by Beryl » Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:27 pm

"I'm still going for something that hasn't been used much." That's sorted this week... Third time lucky. Near mint original de-luxe with enough patina to not to bother wrapping it in cotton wool :)

Bit of progress on the pin wrench front. Got two stainless steel spokes from bicycle shop. The actual spoke diameter is 2.3mm, perfect. The promising bit is the proposed wrench can be drilled to the larger sized spoke collet (5mm). Less potential wobble and the spokes can be screwed in without any wobble when used. Hope that makes sense to anyone interested.

Still looking for small blind bearing puller. You could renew an awful lot of Speedias with this tool...

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Wallys-Cast
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Re: Sorting out the speedia...

Post by Wallys-Cast » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:30 pm

Beryl
for removing the security nut on Speedia and Milbro reels I use old type adjustable spanners with the faces drilled to take pins made from stainless welding rods, the pins are simply inserted so if they wear away or break they are easily removed and replaced.
They works very well and are adjustable for all sizes of these nuts, drill larger diameter holes in the bottom faces for larger diameter pins if needed.
Image

Wal.

Beryl

Re: Sorting out the speedia...

Post by Beryl » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:44 pm

Great solution there Wal :Thumb: Built-in fine adjustment is what my idea lacks, plus having to drill spot on to get centre to centre distance correct. The design of grip with its squared sides facilitates drilling the holes too! I've a decent small engineers vice and a Mickey Mouse drill stand so should be able to sort something out.

As you have been there, is the thread left or right hand?

Cheers

Paul

Beryl

Re: Sorting out the speedia...

Post by Beryl » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:41 pm

Just got one of those from the bay for six quid posted. Far more than there worth I suspect but it's easier to drill the holes than on the more modern version of this tool. Really looking forward to see if the forty second Speedia can be improved with a re -ground pin....

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Wallys-Cast
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Re: Sorting out the speedia...

Post by Wallys-Cast » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:58 pm

Beryl, £6.00 delivered is a good price for one of these adjustable's, they are virtually indestructible and come in dead handy for all sorts of things.
I keep a large one and a small one in my pick-up, they have saved the day many a time with their multi uses.

The thread on the speedia nut is a standard right hand thread.

Wal.

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