Silver Bream

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DaceAce
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Silver Bream

Post by DaceAce »

Silver Bream are easy enough to distinguish from bronze bream and roach x bream hybrids but it does take practice. The first clue is the large eye near the snout which neither of the others have. The second clue is that the lateral line scale count is lower on a silver bream than a bronze bream though in the range of a roach x bream. The last clue is the fin ray count on the anal fin. Colouration can help but does depend on the water and conditions. The fun really starts when you start dealing with silver bream hybrids! I've caught silver bream from the Thames, Dorset Stour, Bristol Avon, Trent, Nene, Witham, Oxford Canal, Hants. Avon and various still waters. I know they are in many other waters but it's common for anglers to refer to them as 'hybrids'..

Bream - anal fin = 24-30 rays, lateral line scale count = 51-55 scales
Silver Bream - anal fin = 19-23 rays, lateral line scale count = 43-48 scales
Roach x Bream - anal fin = 15-19 rays, lateral line scale count = 48 - 52 scales

Bronze Bream with silver colouration
Bream with silver colouration 2-07.jpg
Silver Bream
silver bream Thames 12oz.jpg
Roach x Bream hybrid
Thames roach x bream 2.jpg
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Vole
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Re: Silver Bream

Post by Vole »

I thought that snout forward of the eye being shorter than, or equal to, the diameter of the eye was the dead giveaway; the silver in the photo has the washed-out, floodwater coloration, but Silvers often have a bit of red/orange to the paired fins, which no bronze bream ever does.
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Julian
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Re: Silver Bream

Post by Julian »

So I assume the easiest way is the anal fin rays - from what you are saying 20 to 23 means it can only be a silver bream?
(plus the position and size of the eye would then confirm?)
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Mark
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Re: Silver Bream

Post by Mark »

There is a little more information in this link.

http://www.traditionalfisherman.co.uk/v ... =221&t=694
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Julian
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Re: Silver Bream

Post by Julian »

Thanks Mark - more useful info :D

From their appearance it therefore seems the obvious indicator is the position and relative size of the eye.

However I would guess silver bream hybrids would just add to the confusion.
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DaceAce
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Re: Silver Bream

Post by DaceAce »

It is the combination of features plus the experience of seeing them. I catch a lot of hybrids and photograph them too. Some of the silver bream hybrids are very hard to distinguish. The silver bream shown is definitely a silver bream; the last two people to query some silvers I had on the Bristol Avon, where they were in the habit of calling them hybrids, worked for the EA and took sample fish to their labs to win a bet against me. They lost both times. I do know the difference and have access to scientific papers on hybrids that include work with silver bream as well as other people with a lot of knowledge of silver bream! People think they're rare because they haven't a clue what they are. I'll put up some weird hybrids once I've resized them.

Some more silver bream:
silver bream 6oz.jpg
silver bream 1-03.jpg
IMG_0311.JPG
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DaceAce
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Re: Silver Bream

Post by DaceAce »

Some more hybrids:

Either roach x bream backcross with roach or silver bream x roach:
mystery hybrid 2.jpg
Another roach x bream:
roach bream 2.jpg
Unknown but silver or bronze bream hybrid?
mystery hybrid 1.jpg
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Julian
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Re: Silver Bream

Post by Julian »

In the photos of the three fish you have posted just above Daceace why are the last two not silver bream?
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Mark
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Re: Silver Bream

Post by Mark »

Some more info on Wiki chaps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Bream
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DaceAce
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Re: Silver Bream

Post by DaceAce »

Julian wrote:In the photos of the three fish you have posted just above Daceace why are the last two not silver bream?
Those last two fish come from a water that is about an acre and fairly shallow. It has a big head of small bream and roach, some rudd and a few silver bream, plus plenty of roach x bream hybrids, some roach x rudd hybrids and some oddities.

The topmost fish of the two is a typical roach x bream from the water. they are easy to distinguish due to the anal fin ray count but the overall appearance when you've got them on the bank makes it quite easy to tell they are 'normal' roach x bream. The other fish is a weird one as it doesn't conform to silver bream nor the usual roach x bream which suggests it might be a rudd x silver bream.

On the Thames there are stretches with a lot of silver bream - I've caught them at Newbridge, Medley, Clifton Hampden and Wallingford, possibly other places, in catches up to 40 odd fish - there are big shoals in places; all the examples above came from the Thames as it the silvery bronze bream and the first roach x bream. Roach x bream hybrids are comparatively rare on the Thames but as bream and roach are present from above Lechlade down to the tidal reaches then hybrids should be expected just about anywhere, and Bluedun's guess of roach x bream hybrid for a breamy looking roach is likely to be the correct one.

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