Worrying situation at Redmire

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Kevin
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Re: Worrying situation at Redmire

Post by Kevin » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:59 pm

No problem Trevor it is good news for the countryside..This pool or river or school could be anywhere in the country, rural, close to agribusiness.
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Stathamender
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Re: Worrying situation at Redmire

Post by Stathamender » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:52 pm

Kevin wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:47 pm
There is a temporary ban on all Neonicotinoids, the minister said he supports making it a permanent UK ban.
Italy if i remember correctly stopped it a while back and the insects are in recovery,and buzzing.
The Guardian online quote the minister and 38 degrees have a petition running into the hundreds of thousands.
Best wishes to the Redmire fish,get well soon.
While it seems to be pretty clear that neonicotinoids are harmful to bees I am unaware of any evidence linking them to problems with fish. These are far more likely to result from excessive use of phosphates and nitrates and from agriculture derived sediments. See: https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... 5jucP3P0Dy
Iain

'You may say I'm a dreamer but I am not the only one.......'

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Santiago
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Re: Worrying situation at Redmire

Post by Santiago » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:51 pm

I found lots of evidence that Neonicotinamides affect aquatic insect life, and have a knock on effect on fish, because their levels build up to toxic amounts that kill off aquatic insects that feed on dead plant matter. Subsequently, the plant matter is broken down by bacteria instead, and this leads to anaerobic conditions. Also, there's much less insect life for the fish to feed upon, and this causes major problems for juveniles that have more specific food requirements. The information is very easy to find, just Google aquatic insects and Neonicotinamides. When these chemicals were first tested the long term build up was never considered, so the field tests on aquatic life are now thought to be flawed. They should never have been licenced!
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Stathamender
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Re: Worrying situation at Redmire

Post by Stathamender » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:07 pm

Santiago wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:51 pm
I found lots of evidence that Neonicotinamides affect aquatic insect life, and have a knock on effect on fish, because their levels build up to toxic amounts that kill off aquatic insects that feed on dead plant matter. Subsequently, the plant matter is broken down by bacteria instead, and this leads to anaerobic conditions. Also, there's much less insect life for the fish to feed upon, and this causes major problems for juveniles that have more specific food requirements. The information is very easy to find, just Google aquatic insects and Neonicotinamides. When these chemicals were first tested the long term build up was never considered, so the field tests on aquatic life are now thought to be flawed. They should never have been licenced!
I googled neonics and fish. This recent review https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4284370/ which identifies neonics as toxic to fish and birds in principle, direct effects on fish are difficult to identify '...environmental concentrations of imidacloprid and clothianidin appear to be at levels below those which will cause mortality to freshwater vertebrates, although sub-lethal effects may occur. Some recorded environmental concentrations of fipronil, however, may be sufficiently high to harm fish'. Research on the indirect effects, which are what you refer to, was described as 'there is a paucity of data, despite the potential to exert population-level effects. Our research revealed two field case studies of indirect effects' only one of which referred to fish. It seems clear, from the descriptions given, that what's causing the problems at Redmire, which is what's at issue here, is almost certainly nitrates, phosphates and agricultural derived sediments.
Iain

'You may say I'm a dreamer but I am not the only one.......'

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