The famous lift method - Size of float and shot

This forum is for discussing the Lift Method.
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Firebird
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Re: The famous lift method - Size of float and shot

Post by Firebird » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:57 pm

The float does no lifting, it is the differential pressure from the water that does that. Same thing with a helium balloon in air. Think of a child holding a balloon. You lift the child, the balloon rises with the child. The balloon does not lift the child, you do. Easy to test that one by expt. If you find the child weighs nothing you have just discovered how to make energy.

Actually this isn't a perfect analogy because there is no boundary layer (the water surface) as such. To be exact, a fish will feel the weight of the shot in proportion to the reduction in water displacement - the amount the float that comes out of the water. So, assuming the shot is just enough to set the float, the fish will feel a little bit of weight as it lifts the shot, then the whole lot when the float is flat (I think Santiago made this point above).

It's the same with a small telltale shot. The fish feels the weight as the float rises by the commensurate amount. This is how I usually fish in stillwater. I don't really see the point of lumping all your shot close to the hook.

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Banksy
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Re: The famous lift method - Size of float and shot

Post by Banksy » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:25 pm

Firebird wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:57 pm
The float does no lifting, it is the differential pressure from the water that does that. Same thing with a helium balloon in air. Think of a child holding a balloon. You lift the child, the balloon rises with the child. The balloon does not lift the child, you do. Easy to test that one by expt. If you find the child weighs nothing you have just discovered how to make energy...
Surely it depends on the size of the helium balloon?

Even with a party size balloon, there is a minuscule lifting effect on the child.
If the balloon were of sufficient size, it would lift the child into the air and carry it away, if you were not quick enough to grab it!
And that's not making energy, it's simply the fact that helium is lighter than air?

I fish a tench water which is full of lilies, and floats are often lost when a decent fish ploughs through the lilies.
If it's not too windy, I find the lift method is ideal, using a short length of peacock quill attached with a float rubber and one AA shot, with the shot about 6" from the hook.
As previously described, the quill is trimmed with scissors until it just bears the weight of the shot, then fished at dead depth.
I have been known to go paddling after a good session, to collect all my lost floats which have come adrift.
I am from Yorkshire.

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Stathamender
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Re: The famous lift method - Size of float and shot

Post by Stathamender » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:28 pm

If it's not too windy, I find the lift method is ideal, using a short length of peacock quill attached with a float rubber and one AA shot, with the shot about 6" from the hook.
As previously described, the quill is trimmed with scissors until it just bears the weight of the shot, then fished at dead depth.
I have been known to go paddling after a good session, to collect all my lost floats which have come adrift.
I am from Yorkshire.
I wish I knew where one could find decent float rubbers these days most of those available are plastic which soon splits. I won't get into the argument about lift floats being fished over depth and pulled back to cock. Increasingly what I find is that too many still waters are too weedy for fishing the lift method.
Iain

'You may say I'm a dreamer but I am not the only one.......'

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Reedling
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Re: The famous lift method - Size of float and shot

Post by Reedling » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:40 pm

[/quote]
I wish I knew where one could find decent float rubbers these days most of those available are plastic which soon splits. I won't get into the argument about lift floats being fished over depth and pulled back to cock. Increasingly what I find is that too many still waters are too weedy for fishing the lift method.
[/quote]

Cycle valve rubber may be what you are after, bike shop or a well known auction site may have some.

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Firebird
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Re: The famous lift method - Size of float and shot

Post by Firebird » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:30 pm

Banksy wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:25 pm
Surely it depends on the size of the helium balloon?

Even with a party size balloon, there is a minuscule lifting effect on the child.
No, it doesn't depend on the size. It is the differential pressure of the medium that is the effect of buoyancy, not the object in the medium. It's not easy to understand, which is why many talk about float buoyancy.

Incidentally, the air example is not exactly equivalent to water because its density is not constant with vertical displacement.

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Surrey Martin
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Re: The famous lift method - Size of float and shot

Post by Surrey Martin » Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:01 am

Hey all
Please see a reply I sent recently to a similar query on the lift method
xcuse me for confusing the issue but my u derstanding is that the method you are referring to is Laying On whereas the lift method is different in that the float is set up bottom end and enough bulk shot to nearly cock the float ( I use drennan Driftbeater ) then a tell tale shot BB is placed about 1inch from hook and rests lightly just on the bottom so accurate plumbing is required . Once set up the float will be cocked correctly but as soon as a fish takes or mouths the bait then the tell tale will be be disturbed and the float lifts .When a fish bites I was always told not to strike until the float disappears completely . Something that is very hard to do when a fish is running about with it but it does work and striking before does not hook the fish which of course is hopefully a large tench .
Anyway that’s my interpretation and I think Peter Stones book Gravel Pit Angling Des rives the method
Cheers
Martin

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Reedling
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Re: The famous lift method - Size of float and shot

Post by Reedling » Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:50 am

The first float that is illustrated in the book 'About floats', Fishing Gazette, is showing the lift method to a tee. A 2 1/2" quill is used with just a BB shot sat on the bottom to cock it at dead depth, with a short hook link. When the bait is lifted off the bottom so the float lifts. This dates to November 1904.

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Stathamender
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Re: The famous lift method - Size of float and shot

Post by Stathamender » Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:01 am

Reedling wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:40 pm

I wish I knew where one could find decent float rubbers these days most of those available are plastic which soon splits. I won't get into the argument about lift floats being fished over depth and pulled back to cock. Increasingly what I find is that too many still waters are too weedy for fishing the lift method.


Cycle valve rubber may be what you are after, bike shop or a well known auction site may have some.
Ask for valve rubber in a cycle shop (as I have) and you will be laughed at. Modern tubes simply don't need it. There's a certain amount around I'm told for people who restore old bikes but it's difficult to find. Any way the diameter is too small usually for e.g. the top of an Avon and it soon splits under the strain. I've also tried using pellet bands but agin they break too easily.
Iain

'You may say I'm a dreamer but I am not the only one.......'

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Michael
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Re: The famous lift method - Size of float and shot

Post by Michael » Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:42 am

Interesting thread to read..

I've always thought the classic lift method originated by the lea fisherman, and then popularised by the Taylors & the variants thereafter, interesting. Though at times, I find some folk get bogged down in the nuances, maybe over complicating the matter. :Scared:

I'm not a scientist, but don't items, also float, due to their molecular density, as compared with it's suroundings, ie why a cannon ball will float in mercury and ice will float in water and so on....

There are a few specialist tubing companies around, usually medical supplies, that supply varying diameters & thicknesses of rubber & suitable silicon tubing which are superb as float rubbers.
Many years ago, I bought several yards of the classic original valve rubber and the bits I've used are still going strong!
Last edited by Michael on Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Olly
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Re: The famous lift method - Size of float and shot

Post by Olly » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:11 pm

There is one very good silicon rubber tubing supplier - on eBay.

From 0.5 to 5.0 mm - in various lengths - various colours - eight in fact. At £2.00 per m!

Tubing for line/fish protection to float rubbers!

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