Why do Ambidex reels tighten up?

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Nobby
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Why do Ambidex reels tighten up?

Post by Nobby »

I've long thought that perfectly good Ambidex reels go tight with non-use. The other day a member dropped a stiff and noisy Mark 2FP off for me to have a look at and I reached over to my immaculate boxed example which I blue=printed a few years ago and have actually fished with ...and the ruddy thing would hardly turn!

There's no doubt in my mind that it has stiffened up...but why?


Then I reached across for the faithfull old grey Delmatic....and just as I suspected..it turns perfectly...as they always do.



After much hair pulling I may have the answer.....and it's going to send the price of a Delmatic through the roof!

The Ambidex has a tiny spool and the only way it gets a decent retrieval rate is to turn very fast indeed. Now friction increases exponentially with speed; if we give friction a value of x at 100rpm, at 2000rpm friction will not be 2x, but more likely 3x. Put simply, the faster you go the stiffer the reel gets.

This means that anything that is creating friction is having a greater and greater effect the faster you go.

I had wondered if the spiral gears might be the culprit....they have a massive contact area ( that's why they never wear out despite being made of ...well, a sort of fibreglass!), but Altexes, Abu Cardinals and DAM Finessas have the same gears, albeit in metal....


Various Ambidex models have various main rotor gears, I found after a wanton pillage through the scrap box, but whether 'captive' or not, thay are all a radial ball race bearing on two fibre or plastic discs. Then I noticed that those fibre discs are only polished smooth on one side...and the plastic ones are bendy and had a deep groove worn in it by the balls..increasing surface contact significantly. Add that with the high rotor speed and Bob's your uncle...the reel gets stiff.


But why does it stiffen after time? It turns out the plastic ones...some are green some are blue.....are plastic. Plastic gives, it's bendy.


Over-tighten the rear bearing adjuster that the early reels have..the castelated nut....and the plastic is crushed by the balls, wearing a temporary groove.

Put the reel away for a few months and the grooves in the plastic 'recover'....try and use the reel and it is stiff.


So the answer is to not over-tighten that castellated nut......I think a drop of threadlock is going to be needed though, or the thing might fall off!

Later reels do not have the castellated nut and instead a circlip holds it all togehter, but I'd still be dressing the back of the rear bearing to get it adjusted correctly and turning freely.


Back to the Delmatic...why don't they go stiff?


It turns out the washers for the main bearing are delrin plastic this time...the grey stuff. It is hard and doesn't groove nearly as much.


So putting a Delmatic main bearing in another Ambudex version gives a far smoother reel.


Only it doesn't fit.


But it does fit if you relieve both the central holes in the bearing race, also delrin plastic and those in both washers with a craft knife.


The Delmatic must have a slightly smaller diameter rotor shaft...though it looks the same.


One last thought...sorry to go on so long....It's a pain to dismantle these reels to lubricate this all-important bearing......why not cut a hole in the rear-most washer and set that up so it available to oil when you remove the side cover? There's a little access area there at the front of the reel body for some inexplicable reason....just don't make your hole so big the balls can fall out through it :Chuckle:


Here it is, just out of focus, but visible:

Image
Last edited by Nobby on Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

JohnL

Re: Why do Ambidex reels tighten up?

Post by JohnL »

Wow that's thorough Nobby, really useful too.
Interestingly I had the opposite problem with a number 3 - it was loose. Having completely dismantled it, the fibre washers in the rotor bearing had groves in them where the balls ran, flipping the washers over cured the problem.
Another strange one with a couple of my Ambidexes is that they are stiff when it's cold but absolutely fine when warm.
They really are superb reels when you get them running well - maybe we could compile a list of fixes for folk to use.

Do you use grease, oil or a combination of the two on your Ambidexes Nobby?

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Re: Why do Ambidex reels tighten up?

Post by Dave Burr »

I'd love to see the world through your eyes for a day Nobby. Your engineering ability and curiosity astounds me in the same way that I awe to an artists or musician.

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Marc
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Re: Why do Ambidex reels tighten up?

Post by Marc »

Yip, I suffer from stiffening of the ambidex, ooow er, and I'm over the moon that there is an issue and it's not just my reel is naff.

Cheers Nobby, and thanks for saying 'smaller diameter rotor shaft'; I'm off for a lie down now...
Marc. (Prince of Durham)

“A life that partakes even a little of friendship, love, irony, humor, parenthood, literature, and music, and the chance to take part in battles for the liberation of others cannot be called 'meaningless'...”

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Re: Why do Ambidex reels tighten up?

Post by Nobby »

Hi JohnL, be careful about turning the fibre washers, they are rather rough on one side, the other being 'polished' to take the balls....might be possible to polish up the rough side, though...

What we really need are carbon steel washers in there......


Thanks for the kind comments fellers, but I'm just a fiddler...Watermole+ is your engineer....

You just want to get an Ambidex right because it's British, but in truth Youngs could have done a better job.

I'm going to see if I can source any real bearings and plates for the main rotor bearing...but I don't hold out much hope.

JohnL

Re: Why do Ambidex reels tighten up?

Post by JohnL »

Thanks Nobby, that will explain the slightly less smooth feel to it, new washes it is then.

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Re: Why do Ambidex reels tighten up?

Post by Nobby »

I've just spent an hour trying to find either replacement thrust bearings or thrust washers. :Hair out: :Hair out: :Hair out:


Nothing doing. The i/d of 7/16th in. is Ok, but the o/d of 53/64th in. is just unobtainable, and no complete bearings at 11/64th in. thick either.



Oh well. it was a nice idea......

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Re: Why do Ambidex reels tighten up?

Post by Marc »

Nobby wrote: Nothing doing. The i/d of 7/16th in. is Ok, but the o/d of 53/64th in. is just unobtainable, and no complete bearings at 11/64th in. thick ..
Just what I was thinking.... :Confused:
Marc. (Prince of Durham)

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Re: Why do Ambidex reels tighten up?

Post by JohnL »

Could some fibre, delrin, teflon sheet material of the right thickness be found and machine some up. I'm not sure what the best material would be.

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Re: Why do Ambidex reels tighten up?

Post by GarryProcter »

Well Nobby when you find the solution, which I'm sure you will, I'm first in line to have my Ambidex Nobbified :Happy:

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