Early post ww2 Rapidex , Floatcraft & Flick- em study

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Keston
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Re: Early post ww2 Rapidex , Floatcraft & Flick- em study

Post by Keston » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:18 pm

Duckett wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:45 pm
Keston wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:52 pm
Duckett wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:31 pm
Keston wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:54 pm
Another round handle Rapidex has surfaced.
Does anyone know of other J.W.Youngs built reels that might be sporting the same handles?
Allcocks maybe ? Pre or early post WW2 ?
Not seen one like that before but wish I had. No matter how much I love my Rapidex and Trudex, I do not like the waisted handles. I wonder if I am alone in that?
I have 4 rounded handle Rapidex now ., they are about and there are some Allcocks Flick ems on the forum with these handles.
There is one on a dealers website that looks like round handles but it's not cheap and oddly has the later high boss and pointy spindle.

I think the early reels look much nicer with the round handles.
I see what you mean. That one is a bit of a mixed bag. If it is as original, it eaither adds to Nobby’s suggestion of them doing a “Grice and Young” (though my impression is that this was a later development as I’ve not seen it in early G&R pins) or help your dating exercise.
I messaged the chap who ,quite literally wrote the book on J.W.Youngs reels . His reply supported what Nobby suggested . He felt the shaped handles the norm but if there was a shortage they might have used anything to hand .
I think that's why im hoping to find the origins of the round handles.
It could take years of looking at and complaring The early Rapidex family without ever getting clear understanding or answer .
I guess if you find a subject interesting There is value in trying to support a theory even without the promise of a definitive answer .

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Wallys-Cast
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Re: Early post ww2 Rapidex , Floatcraft & Flick- em study

Post by Wallys-Cast » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:07 am

Post war Allcocks 3 3/4" Aerials, Match Aerials and Allcocks Record Breaker all have the rounded handles, could it be that it was an Allcocks preference and Youngs could only used the waisted handles on reels with their name on. I think its the same with the fly reels but need to check a few more to be certain.

Wal.

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Re: Early post ww2 Rapidex , Floatcraft & Flick- em study

Post by Wallys-Cast » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:13 am

Just checked a few fly reels and there are lots of them with the waisted handles so the round ones are not specific to all Allcocks reels.

Wal.

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Re: Early post ww2 Rapidex , Floatcraft & Flick- em study

Post by Lea Dweller » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:45 am

Wallys-Cast wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:13 am
Just checked a few fly reels and there are lots of them with the waisted handles so the round ones are not specific to all Allcocks reels.

Wal.
I am assuming that Garry Mills has been asked for his opinions on this matter, as he would surely have had access to records that we would not?

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Keston
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Re: Early post ww2 Rapidex , Floatcraft & Flick- em study

Post by Keston » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:08 am

Thanks for looking and contributing Wal.
I took your lead and just checked my early Youngs made reels and they all have the waisted handles, including the Milwards Flymaster .
I think the question at the moment is were the Waisted handles on the very first post war reels right from the beginning , or were they introduced later as an evolution?
The first post war Youngs reels were The Rapidex , Pridex, Beaudex and Ambidex ?
If the round handles were a substitute because they ran out of waisted handles from time to time which reel did they come from, and do we see batch changes like the ratchet washer moving position does this support an evolution ?

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Re: Early post ww2 Rapidex , Floatcraft & Flick- em study

Post by Keston » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:15 am

Lea Dweller wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:45 am
Wallys-Cast wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:13 am
Just checked a few fly reels and there are lots of them with the waisted handles so the round ones are not specific to all Allcocks reels.

Wal.
I am assuming that Garry Mills has been asked for his opinions on this matter, as he would surely have had access to records that we would not?
Hi Ted
Yes that's a good idea and I know from chatting to him In the past has happy to discuss such things .
I had thought of calling him but to be brutally frank at this time my mental health means I'm too insecure to interupt a busy man to discuss it .

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Re: Early post ww2 Rapidex , Floatcraft & Flick- em study

Post by Nobby » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:06 am

I can't be sure...as I don't have one here...but I think the 'round' handles were also used on the PRE war Aerial Match made in only 1939. There may just have been some of these handles hanging around after the war and they were used up first. Immediately post war reels all seem to have them, including Vikings, Beaduexes, and Condexes. These are all riveted on, whereas the Aerial Match handles were held in place with a screw, though I have found one image which has them riveted on too...though I think this is a repair as the rivets just look different from any others used by JW Young.

That's actually a fair few reels so maybe they were made post war after all, but it would seem to suggest they were on the very earliest reels post war.......?

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Re: Early post ww2 Rapidex , Floatcraft & Flick- em study

Post by Keston » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:39 am

Nobby wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:06 am
I can't be sure...as I don't have one here...but I think the 'round' handles were also used on the PRE war Aerial Match made in only 1939. There may just have been some of these handles hanging around after the war and they were used up first. Immediately post war reels all seem to have them, including Vikings, Beaduexes, and Condexes. These are all riveted on, whereas the Aerial Match handles were held in place with a screw, though I have found one image which has them riveted on too...though I think this is a repair as the rivets just look different from any others used by JW Young.

That's actually a fair few reels so maybe they were made post war after all, but it would seem to suggest they were on the very earliest reels post war.......?
Hi Nobby
Thanks for sharing your thoughts .
It would be great to see if these round handles were indeed in a pre war Allcocks.
Reading back the thread you made about Ted's Flick em you commented it may have been some sort of prototype . As more of these very early round handle Rapidex Family appear it does seem to me likely that the very first ones might have been produced with the round handles prior to the introduction of the patented waisted handles.
As you have noted the Match aerial handles were screw on rather than the Rivets used on the Rapidex family it might be worth looking at that .
The Beaudex were early but I think the Condex and viking arrived a fair bit after ?

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Re: Early post ww2 Rapidex , Floatcraft & Flick- em study

Post by Lea Dweller » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:28 pm

Keston wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:15 am
Lea Dweller wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:45 am
Wallys-Cast wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:13 am
Just checked a few fly reels and there are lots of them with the waisted handles so the round ones are not specific to all Allcocks reels.

Wal.
I am assuming that Garry Mills has been asked for his opinions on this matter, as he would surely have had access to records that we would not?
Hi Ted
Yes that's a good idea and I know from chatting to him In the past has happy to discuss such things .
I had thought of calling him but to be brutally frank at this time my mental health means I'm too insecure to interupt a busy man to discuss it .
Sorry to hear that your mental health is not good at present John, I do hope that you improve soon! I will take my early Allcock 'Flickem Perfection' with the round handles to Redditch and ask Garry for his opinions on the timeline. I will let you know what he says, as I am sure it will be of interest!

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Keston
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Re: Early post ww2 Rapidex , Floatcraft & Flick- em study

Post by Keston » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:32 pm

Lea Dweller wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:28 pm
Keston wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:15 am
Lea Dweller wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:45 am
Wallys-Cast wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:13 am
Just checked a few fly reels and there are lots of them with the waisted handles so the round ones are not specific to all Allcocks reels.

Wal.
I am assuming that Garry Mills has been asked for his opinions on this matter, as he would surely have had access to records that we would not?
Hi Ted
Yes that's a good idea and I know from chatting to him In the past has happy to discuss such things .
I had thought of calling him but to be brutally frank at this time my mental health means I'm too insecure to interupt a busy man to discuss it .
Sorry to hear that your mental health is not good at present John, I do hope that you improve soon! I will take my early Allcock 'Flickem Perfection' with the round handles to Redditch and ask Garry for his opinions on the timeline. I will let you know what he says, as I am sure it will be of interest!
Well played Ted.
I would be very interested to hear any views he might have .
I also hope you have a great time at Redditch, and a fruitful one too .
John

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