Making an Aerial-Match

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Lea Dweller
Eel
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Re: Making an Aerial-Match

Post by Lea Dweller » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:04 am

Paul F wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:30 pm
I don't understand how you are doing it, but it is amazing :Confused:
I agree with you Paul, I can only admire the results of a mind working way beyond the capacity of mine!
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall!
Confucius

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Nobby
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Re: Making an Aerial-Match

Post by Nobby » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:07 pm

So the lathe just became a mill! A profile copier mill. Which didn't probably even exist when the lathe was first made.........maybe it did, but the question is too complicated for Google. Leszek, we just gave Google a headache...... :-)


Pantograph?

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JockScott
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Re: Making an Aerial-Match

Post by JockScott » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:39 pm

The "39" was only made for one year but only because the factory was bombed and tooling etc destroyed after making only a few hundred and they are numbered.
The reel was never designed to be a wonderful achievement of engineering but was a narrow, lighter and cheaply made reel more suitable for modern lighter Rods and was intended for mass production. After all look at the fittings, even cheap plastic handles. I own both models and have used them often and for the life of me can not understand why they realise four figure sums. Perhaps only because of a cult following and in my opinion not because of its quality. In truth there are many 20's and 30's Allcocks branded pins that are much better user reels and even the pop and c340 that I detest with a passion are equal to the 39 on a rod........In my opinion.

That should put the fox in the chicken coup......

Surely the Pins that were manufactured for many many years, proved their worth and popularity is worth reproducing.

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Fredline
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Re: Making an Aerial-Match

Post by Fredline » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:07 am

Hi Jock, I was always under the impression that the ‘39 was made in 3 models, left, right and none, lineguards that is. Surely all Allcocks reels were made for mass production? As for the prices I think the fact that very few where made and survived may be a factor in this.
Last edited by Fredline on Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
If you have no grease with you, and your rings are full of ice, do not cut out the ice with a pen-knife but get your man to put the rings one by one in his mouth, and so to thaw the ice.
John Bickerdyke.

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Nobby
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Re: Making an Aerial-Match

Post by Nobby » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:20 am

I did read on the 'net somewhere that the factory being bombed and the moulds being destroyed is just an 'urban myth' that never really happened.

If the reels were made by JW Young in Mayfield Road I think we'd all know by now if they had ever been bombed out......as it was we now know they were busy making the Spitfire firing button for Dunlop. Of course, the moulds could have been stored somewhere else for 'the duration' and that place got bombed.......

Indeed, our own Stefan Duma once wrote that this is exactly what happened..the tooling being moved to Birmingham .... a prime Luftwaffe target, surely?

http://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?t=4377

Though, of course, we now know the post War Match Aerial was in fact designed by Peter Coe, father of Olympian Seb Coe and had nothing to do with the pre-War Aerial reels except retaining their spoked spool.


Garry Mills has written on FaceBook that the Aerial Match reel body was made in right hand wind only, with two lugs standing out from the casting. Some right hand reels were made by grinding off these lugs and replacing them with screw-on ones to hold the line guard in another position, as well as one reel sold with no lugs at all and therefore no line guard. The numbers of these reels old is minimal, perhaps due to the war clearly about to happen from 1936 onwards. Peculiarly, we now know from Leszek Delag, who is making some replicas of these reels, that there were two different castings used in this very short production run.


Note, in the link above, how much Stefan sold his for....swoon!

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Watermole+
Grayling
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Re: Making an Aerial-Match

Post by Watermole+ » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:46 pm

JockScott wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:39 pm
The "39" was only made for one year but only because the factory was bombed and tooling etc destroyed after making only a few hundred and they are numbered.
The reel was never designed to be a wonderful achievement of engineering but was a narrow, lighter and cheaply made reel more suitable for modern lighter Rods and was intended for mass production. After all look at the fittings, even cheap plastic handles. I own both models and have used them often and for the life of me can not understand why they realise four figure sums. Perhaps only because of a cult following and in my opinion not because of its quality. In truth there are many 20's and 30's Allcocks branded pins that are much better user reels and even the pop and c340 that I detest with a passion are equal to the 39 on a rod........In my opinion.

That should put the fox in the chicken coup......

Surely the Pins that were manufactured for many many years, proved their worth and popularity is worth reproducing.
I personally don't subscribe to the story about "tooling lost in the bombing" etc.
The tooling required to make this reel is quite basic and if Allcocks' had wanted to continue production after the war, they could have made a new set-up very easily and without any substantial outlay.
I feel that the more likely story is that the Aerial-Match was already outdated when it was being produced. It filled a need at the time, but it would have been pointless to continue with it when everyone wanted the newer models being produced after the war so it was just quietly dropped..

I don't think it fair to say that the fittings were 'cheap' as in 'shabby', if that is your meaning. The handle winders were made from the same thermosetting compound as many other makers' reels and set on nice cupped spindles with brass screws. They were adequate for the job..after all, they have survived to this day..!
The lineguard was also a nice turned duralumin item on brass pillars, not just a bent wire one. No other reel had that. The reel seat was also brass and screwed to a strong lug in the cast backplate and the spokes were nickel-silver, fitted to a phosphor-bronze hub....nothing "cheap" about that...
You say you have two? If you dislike them, there are many on here who will gladly take them off your hands!!! :Hahaha: :Hat:

I feel that they fetch high prices today because of the scarcity value amongst collectors. As you rightly say, they were not masterpieces in engineering, but nevertheless, substantially made, adequate reels and they have found a niche market today. Many Allcocks reels of the '20s and '30s are also sought after-and it is also true that the C340 had "a bad press", but there are many who equally enjoy using them..
I think it is more about if a certain reel gives pleasure to it's owner, who are we to condemn it..?

...Anyway, let's get on with making a few more!

I apologize for not showing many pictures of producing the profiled 'blank' in my previous post...Just wanted to get on with it and forgot about taking pictures!
The next stage is to produce the reel seat lug. I did this by firstly re-chucking it and cutting out the depth...

Image

...a bit of swarf production here!

Image


Image


Next, the excess was cut away from the sides..

Image


Please excuse the following indulgent picture but the sun was shining through the end window this morning and illuminated the lathe! -It doesn't happen very often..

Image

Nearly there..

Image


A different set-up now for cutting the lug sides straight.


Image


...and the finished result so far..


Image

The next step will be to produce the back of the plate, but this is also what you get so far...!


Image


Watch this space..

wm+

....But lay up for yourselves treasure in Heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through and steal.
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also
..Jesus of Nazareth, King James AV

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Wallys-Cast
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Re: Making an Aerial-Match

Post by Wallys-Cast » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:59 pm

I'm watching Leszek don't you worry.. :Hat:

Wal.

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Paul F
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Re: Making an Aerial-Match

Post by Paul F » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:17 pm

:drool: :drool: :drool:

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Hovis
Eel
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Re: Making an Aerial-Match

Post by Hovis » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:09 pm

Simply fantastic. I love the milling set up to produce the back piece, very innovative indeed.
I have laid aside business, and gone a'fishing.

Izaak Walton

Leigh

Re: Making an Aerial-Match

Post by Leigh » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:16 pm

A fantastic project Watermole +, looking forward to seeing it's progress.

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