dip tubes

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St.John
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Re: dip tubes

Post by St.John » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:53 pm

Cheers Paul, that's really helpful. So far varnish contraption 5000 mk1 consists of dust free box, dip tubes, drawing mechanisms made from the gearing of an old Mitchell 410 that I snapped the handle off (currently under construction). Still left to be made is insulation around dip tubes so I can warm the varnish, extraction fan with dust filter, probably with the option of a heater. All very Heath Robinson, but it's great fun!! Bloody thing stands 8foot high when put together!
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Tonkin

Re: dip tubes

Post by Tonkin » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:31 pm

regarding dipping again ! another way is to dip the finished rod minus the rings ! you can whip the ferrules intermediate et c but then leave th e sections to cure /harden and then whip your rings on ! Got to be careful not to scratch the rod of course ! then you have only the ring s to finish ! you will find that if your reasonably careful the varnish will meld into the shaft varnish and you wont be able to tell it wasnt all done at the same time !

GloucesterOldSpot

Re: dip tubes

Post by GloucesterOldSpot » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:59 am

tonkin wrote:regarding dipping again ! another way is to dip the finished rod minus the rings ! you can whip the ferrules intermediate et c but then leave th e sections to cure /harden and then whip your rings on ! Got to be careful not to scratch the rod of course ! then you have only the ring s to finish ! you will find that if your reasonably careful the varnish will meld into the shaft varnish and you wont be able to tell it wasnt all done at the same time !
That's how some of the US makers do it. Fine if you like transparent whippings, but no good if you want to colour-preserve them as whatever you use to do this will dissolve the varnish on the shaft. Also, whipping onto a layer of varnish is fraught with difficulty as the turns bite into the varnish and make it almost impossible to avoid gaps.

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Nobby
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Re: dip tubes

Post by Nobby » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:27 pm

Yes, I've just added 'inters' onto a rod I restored years ago( it was raining...I was bored)and it wasn't easy work, even with the varnish being well dried by now.

There is a water based whipping sealer from Seymo that wouldn't ruin the varnish beneath, but it was appalling stuff and I shan't be buying it again. Perhaps I had a duff bottle, but it just looked like white PVA to me.

GloucesterOldSpot

Re: dip tubes

Post by GloucesterOldSpot » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:32 pm

Nobby wrote:Yes, I've just added 'inters' onto a rod I restored years ago( it was raining...I was bored)and it wasn't easy work, even with the varnish being well dried by now.

There is a water based whipping sealer from Seymo that wouldn't ruin the varnish beneath, but it was appalling stuff and I shan't be buying it again. Perhaps I had a duff bottle, but it just looked like white PVA to me.
I think that's all it is. I've not used it myself, but a friend did and found it horrid. I expect it's alright for black whippings on carbon rods, but not at all suitable for coloured whippings on cane or glass.

Fundamentally, whatever you use as a CP must by definition be resistant to the varnish you put over the top. The options are limited to cellulose, shellac (French Polish) or one of the modern epoxy resins. The first two will dissolve oil or polyurethane varnish if applied on top of it; the latter may not but it's hard to get a thin enough finish with it, and I'm not a fan of using something that is almost impossible to shift if a ring should sustain damage at a later date.

Tonkin

Re: dip tubes

Post by Tonkin » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:11 am

Well all I can say is that in my time at Pegley Davies running the Finishing Dept I sprayed, Dipped and hand varnished 100s of rods ! spraying is ok if you get the combination of viscosity / air pressure right ! varnish type! you dont need a high air pressure ! about 20lb ! Of course you need a reasonable set up I had a spray booth etc ! I recall having to spray the whole range of rods made with the green ferrule less Lerc or Garbolino ? blanks The reason being that they were porous! So! if dipped on my big dipping machine ! six feet let into the floor with god knows how many gallons of varnish they filled up! Bet Im the only one who's ever varnished a rod inside and out ! ho ho ! And Ive never had trouble whipping over a varnished blank ! If you let it cure and go really hard ! cant see how its any different then whipping over the lacquer finish on the blank when made ! Ive got a micky mouse spray unit from Axminster power tool Co I got mainly for use on my other hobby Luthering ! ( Guitar making ) My "spray booth") is a cheap metal tubed "Green House from Argos ! IVe lined it with polythene sheeting ! I dont do any spraying in it in weather like weve got at the mo needless to say ! but in more clement conditions its ok ! And Ive got very good powered Mask/ respirator! most important ! By th eway ! from what ive seen of modern finishes on rods ( carbon ) its not varnish as we know it Jim! isnt it a epoxy resin of some kind ?(flexicoat??) regrds Tonkin

Tonkin

Re: dip tubes

Post by Tonkin » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:32 am

Yes ! do recall having probs with the whipping sealant interacting with the varnish ! We were using at the time a cellulose clear product called ! Celire? not sure of spelling!) I do know it was made on the Isle of Wight!! My paint rep got me some polyurethane varnish with a compatible clear sealant for the whippings !Incidentally ive been doing some trial whippings and coated them with West system epoxy! haven't ventured out to workshop yet regards tonkin

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Re: dip tubes

Post by Nobby » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:12 am

Fascinating stuff. It might please you to know that that old PDQ stuff is quite collectable these days.....at least I never manage to win any on eBay!

Tonkin

Re: dip tubes

Post by Tonkin » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:15 pm

To be honest Nobby ! I thought PDQs rods not that great ! ( apart from the finish ! ho ho ) My own gear at that time was made at home by me ! Ok!! so the odd tip ring etc came my way ! ho ho ! I never had a lot to do with the rod building at that time . but I use to have a nose around the shop ! The split cane was made on a machine which was like a small thickness planer , which had boards made of some kind of hard laminated material into which six 60' degree v grooves were cut ! These where tapered so that a complete top or butt section was milled ! there were I believe , secondary boards which reduced the strips down to the finished board so that starting rough strips of bamboo you got a finished set of splines Then a ex fishmongers slab was used to layout and glue up the blanks feeding them through a four bobbin binder ! All that stuff went to a scapdealer Im told when P D closed ! regards tonkin

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Re: dip tubes

Post by The Sweetcorn Kid » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:43 pm

Wow, good work managing to fit 11 exclamation marks into that paragraph...... :hat:
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