A small but weighty matter..

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Barbulus
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Re: A small but weighty matter..

Post by Barbulus » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:04 pm

Excellent WM+; a truly delightful idea to take a simple functional item and change it into a thing of beauty. I imagine they come with a suitable label advising both fish and people not to swallow them......

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Snape
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Re: A small but weighty matter..

Post by Snape » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:43 pm

Nobby wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:15 pm
Apologies, then if copper isn't toxic in the aquatic environment...I read that it was when I kept tropical fish years ago. A search on Google suggest that it is, but it's a subject I have no understanding of.

The problem with the toxicity issue is that references to copper, lead etc being toxic refer to their ions (as compounds) not the metals themselves as the metal cannot interact with biological systems. If you ingested lumps of lead, copper or even drank mercury they would just pass through you as they are not affected by gastric juices so do not react and are not absorbed (lots of cases of toddlers swallowing copper coins).
Lead is pretty unreactive but over a long period of time could react slightly in the aquatic environment (hence banning lead water pipes), copper is less reactive and does not react with water (hence being used for water pipes etc) and mercury is less reactive still (hence being used in amalgam filings). These are all classed as heavy metals and once in compound form, their ions are highly toxic to all living things although toxicity is about dosage and not the actual substance. Everything is toxic at a high enough dosage...
The dosages to kill 50% of average men (assuming we are similar to rats!) are
Caffeine: around 170 cups of coffee.
Salt: about 1/2 lb
Ethanol: just over a pint of 40% spirits, 20 pints of beer.
Citric acid: 15,000 oranges.
Sugar: 5lbs.
Water: 15 pints
These would all need to be consumed rapidly before any is excreted.

I definitely think WM+ should go ahead and stick to copper plummets....
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
~Henry David Thoreau

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Nobby
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Re: A small but weighty matter..

Post by Nobby » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:13 am

Snape wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:43 pm
Nobby wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:15 pm
Apologies, then if copper isn't toxic in the aquatic environment...I read that it was when I kept tropical fish years ago. A search on Google suggest that it is, but it's a subject I have no understanding of.

The problem with the toxicity issue is that references to copper, lead etc being toxic refer to their ions (as compounds) not the metals themselves as the metal cannot interact with biological systems. If you ingested lumps of lead, copper or even drank mercury they would just pass through you as they are not affected by gastric juices so do not react and are not absorbed (lots of cases of toddlers swallowing copper coins).
Lead is pretty unreactive but over a long period of time could react slightly in the aquatic environment (hence banning lead water pipes), copper is less reactive and does not react with water (hence being used for water pipes etc) and mercury is less reactive still (hence being used in amalgam filings). These are all classed as heavy metals and once in compound form, their ions are highly toxic to all living things although toxicity is about dosage and not the actual substance. Everything is toxic at a high enough dosage...
The dosages to kill 50% of average men (assuming we are similar to rats!) are
Caffeine: around 170 cups of coffee.
Salt: about 1/2 lb
Ethanol: just over a pint of 40% spirits, 20 pints of beer.
Citric acid: 15,000 oranges.
Sugar: 5lbs.
Water: 15 pints
These would all need to be consumed rapidly before any is excreted.

I definitely think WM+ should go ahead and stick to copper plummets....
Beautifully explained, Nigel. You should go into teaching! :Wink: Watermole+...as usual I was talking tripe....sorry old friend.


I love the 15,000 oranges....... :laugh1:

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Jeremy Croxall
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Re: A small but weighty matter..

Post by Jeremy Croxall » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:09 am

Snape wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:43 pm
Nobby wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:15 pm
Apologies, then if copper isn't toxic in the aquatic environment...I read that it was when I kept tropical fish years ago. A search on Google suggest that it is, but it's a subject I have no understanding of.

The problem with the toxicity issue is that references to copper, lead etc being toxic refer to their ions (as compounds) not the metals themselves as the metal cannot interact with biological systems. If you ingested lumps of lead, copper or even drank mercury they would just pass through you as they are not affected by gastric juices so do not react and are not absorbed (lots of cases of toddlers swallowing copper coins).
Lead is pretty unreactive but over a long period of time could react slightly in the aquatic environment (hence banning lead water pipes), copper is less reactive and does not react with water (hence being used for water pipes etc) and mercury is less reactive still (hence being used in amalgam filings). These are all classed as heavy metals and once in compound form, their ions are highly toxic to all living things although toxicity is about dosage and not the actual substance. Everything is toxic at a high enough dosage...
The dosages to kill 50% of average men (assuming we are similar to rats!) are
Caffeine: around 170 cups of coffee.
Salt: about 1/2 lb
Ethanol: just over a pint of 40% spirits, 20 pints of beer.
Citric acid: 15,000 oranges.
Sugar: 5lbs.
Water: 15 pints
These would all need to be consumed rapidly before any is excreted.

I definitely think WM+ should go ahead and stick to copper plummets....
Very interesting, The conclusion I draw from your list is that you need more beer to kill you than you do water, therefore beer is better for your health than water! :cheers:

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Snape
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Re: A small but weighty matter..

Post by Snape » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:48 am

Jeremy Croxall wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:09 am
Snape wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:43 pm
Nobby wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:15 pm
Apologies, then if copper isn't toxic in the aquatic environment...I read that it was when I kept tropical fish years ago. A search on Google suggest that it is, but it's a subject I have no understanding of.

The problem with the toxicity issue is that references to copper, lead etc being toxic refer to their ions (as compounds) not the metals themselves as the metal cannot interact with biological systems. If you ingested lumps of lead, copper or even drank mercury they would just pass through you as they are not affected by gastric juices so do not react and are not absorbed (lots of cases of toddlers swallowing copper coins).
Lead is pretty unreactive but over a long period of time could react slightly in the aquatic environment (hence banning lead water pipes), copper is less reactive and does not react with water (hence being used for water pipes etc) and mercury is less reactive still (hence being used in amalgam filings). These are all classed as heavy metals and once in compound form, their ions are highly toxic to all living things although toxicity is about dosage and not the actual substance. Everything is toxic at a high enough dosage...
The dosages to kill 50% of average men (assuming we are similar to rats!) are
Caffeine: around 170 cups of coffee.
Salt: about 1/2 lb
Ethanol: just over a pint of 40% spirits, 20 pints of beer.
Citric acid: 15,000 oranges.
Sugar: 5lbs.
Water: 15 pints
These would all need to be consumed rapidly before any is excreted.

I definitely think WM+ should go ahead and stick to copper plummets....
Very interesting, The conclusion I draw from your list is that you need more beer to kill you than you do water, therefore beer is better for your health than water! :cheers:
Yes it initially looks that way but sadly beer contains both ethanol and water and if you tried to drink the 20 pints (in one go) to hit the ethanol level, the water would get you first at just under 16 pints (assuming 5% beer). :cheers:
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
~Henry David Thoreau

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Lea Dweller
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Re: A small but weighty matter..

Post by Lea Dweller » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:54 am

I feel sick! :Hat:

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QuinetteCane
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Re: A small but weighty matter..

Post by QuinetteCane » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:47 pm

I think rather bemusedly the word in itself is the most toxic.
Especially in news items where the reporter is enthusiastically
speaking on a subject of which they have no real knowledge.
I have all my life lived in buildings that still have mains lead piping
under the floor into the kitchen. Only in new builds, I guess,is the
material "banned". (None Intended). No one in authority has knocked
on my door demanding the lead be replaced in my 70+ years.
I prefer my drinking water to be boiled first to release any chemicals
added at the source, any heavy metal toxins present should, I think, remain.
So it seems authority would have it that I can ingest something "toxic"which they
Insist should not be in the environment from which it comes anyway!
All an intended observation which turned unintendedly ranty. Blame the toxins!
Excellent plummets Wm+ I suspect not commercially viable on time spent making
them, but then that's greatly the thing that puts them beyond just a useful item innit!
Hey Barbulus, if only swans could read eh! bless 'em.

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Watermole+
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Re: A small but weighty matter..

Post by Watermole+ » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:26 pm

Marvellous responses!

Thank you one and all for that....Don't you just love our own Professor Snape's authoritive writings? :Hat:

I just read them with total awe! What it is to be edumicated !!!

These plummets were just trial ones and to be honest, I dumped them in the scrap bin because they are not that well made.

However, after all the nice comments, I relented and fished them out again..and am thinking of making a few more from both brass, as well as using up the remainder of that copper...
If Mark agrees, I could make some for you all in return for donating a few shekels toward the forum running costs? I haven't weighed them but the base is about 5/8" diameter and they are about the same in height. It would certainly make a change from knocking up iffy reels..

Or maybe perhaps a little set of say three or five in a wooden box, as a future forum raffle prize?

All printable views welcome.. :Hat:

wm+

....But lay up for yourselves treasure in Heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through and steal.
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also
..Jesus of Nazareth, King James AV

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Nobby
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Re: A small but weighty matter..

Post by Nobby » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:32 pm

Gimme , gimme! you can print that!!

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Keston
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Re: A small but weighty matter..

Post by Keston » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:41 pm

Gosh I hope Mark is agreeable , my tackle box would do a happy dance :dancing:

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