How large will King Carp grow, naturally...?

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Dave Burr
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Re: How large will King Carp grow, naturally...?

Post by Dave Burr »

Scott wrote:
Dave Burr wrote:TFF trip to Northern Korea anybody? :Chuckle:
I know a North Korean chap, I asked him;

"How is life there?"
"Can't complain."

I'll get my coat.
Badoom tish! :Chuckle:

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Julian
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Re: How large will King Carp grow, naturally...?

Post by Julian »

For me its all about relative size for the water.
On a pool where most of the carp dont go above 10 lbs and one day someone catches a 25 lb carp - thats a monster carp.
I remember the story, i think its in one of CY 's books, about a deepish pool of not much more than half an acre where small carp were regularly caught , but stories of one 20 lb carp being caught by more than one angler were frequent.
A few years later the pool was drained ( to be filled in and built on) , and sure enough when netted a 20 lb carp turned up, but what surprised all the local anglers was that another carp of nearly 40 lb was also netted.
Not only had no one ever caught it but no one had claimed to have eve seen it or hooked it.
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Gary Bills
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Re: How large will King Carp grow, naturally...?

Post by Gary Bills »

Julian wrote:For me its all about relative size for the water.
On a pool where most of the carp dont go above 10 lbs and one day someone catches a 25 lb carp - thats a monster carp.
I remember the story, i think its in one of CY 's books, about a deepish pool of not much more than half an acre where small carp were regularly caught , but stories of one 20 lb carp being caught by more than one angler were frequent.
A few years later the pool was drained ( to be filled in and built on) , and sure enough when netted a 20 lb carp turned up, but what surprised all the local anglers was that another carp of nearly 40 lb was also netted.
Not only had no one ever caught it but no one had claimed to have eve seen it or hooked it.
Now these tales I like, Julian! - enough to get the pulse racing.... :Hat:
From memory, I think the "canal stocking" by Fred J and Walker, which you've mentioned in the past, I think, indicated that only around 3 per cent of the carp stocked had the 'fast growing gene' - but from that small number, the monsters can occasionally arise.
Perhaps the really big fish (apparently) seen in Redmire in the 1950s to the 1970s had this 'gene'? Who knows?

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Skeff
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Re: How large will King Carp grow, naturally...?

Post by Skeff »

An interesting topic.... I've long thought carp angling is following a split path between those of us interested in fishing "semi-natural" waters for fish that reflect the environment they have grown up in )and are harder to catch because of a predominantly natural diet) and anglers who want to fish for big fish, often stocked at a large weight into waters where they depend on anglers baits for at least part of their diet.

The extreme version of this latter type of fishery would be Euro Aqua in Hungary, where the carp are fed daily on boilies, pellet and maize introduced by boat using dustbins, or Rob Hales feed cannon or fisheries like Pavyotts Mill....

In the former category would be my own water Ashmead (several 40's and a mirror approaching 60) and the likes of The Mere or some of the big Cambridgeshire waters. I know of at least three completely unfished waters in the UK with naturally grown 50+ fish in them (one a "pond" of less than half an acre!)...

Of course there is a spectrum of management within these extremes.

I do worry about the impact of the "big fish at all costs" waters, and the densely stocked carp fisheries where the carp and therefore by extension the angling are detrimental to the environment and welfare of the fish. These will surely be damaging to the wider perception of our pastime....

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Gary Bills
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Re: How large will King Carp grow, naturally...?

Post by Gary Bills »

"In the former category would be my own water Ashmead (several 40's and a mirror approaching 60) and the likes of The Mere or some of the big Cambridgeshire waters. I know of at least three completely unfished waters in the UK with naturally grown 50+ fish in them (one a "pond" of less than half an acre!)... "

That certainly helps to bring the mystery back, Skeff! Thanks for the info. :Hat: I have days when I doubt the tales of the Redmire legends and days when I truly believe. What you say indicates that absolute 'monsters' were probably seen, as reported, in the 1950s and 1960s - and of course, there is Ashlea, isn't there? - a really small water with at least one reported, uncaught giant, during the 1960s.
There's a water near me, less that one acre, where the long-established carp are touching 30lb - (although I've only manged to catch fish there to half that size so far) - it's not a pretty water, unlike other ponds I fish - just a pond in the middle of a lawn, really; but the point it, it is really old - you'll find it, just as it is, on Victorian maps, and it's much older than that. I suppose the carp go big, relative to the pond's size, because a natural food source has developed there over time, even centuries? The 'larders', then, are reliable and long-standing....?

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Skeff
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Re: How large will King Carp grow, naturally...?

Post by Skeff »

" I suppose the carp go big, relative to the pond's size, because a natural food source has developed there over time, even centuries? The 'larders', then, are reliable and long-standing....?"

You need the perfect confluence of factors Gary.... Good genetic stock, at low density (or rather optimum density) in a food rich environment with excellent water quality and no other limiting factors. As an example, Ashmead has a relatively low stock density of really good quality carp (quite slow-growing but long-lived), shed loads of natural food year round (from small rudd to gamers, swan mussels, snails, bloodworm.....), and only rainwater fed, on mineral rich alluvial clay.

Remember the Redmire carp grew big in an undisturbed environment before they were fished for.... Look at Clarissa and the 58 Walker netted in the shallows, even if you don't believe in the uncaught monsters.....

Such places will always be thin on the ground - that's what makes them so special.

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Gary Bills
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Re: How large will King Carp grow, naturally...?

Post by Gary Bills »

Skeff wrote:" I suppose the carp go big, relative to the pond's size, because a natural food source has developed there over time, even centuries? The 'larders', then, are reliable and long-standing....?"

You need the perfect confluence of factors Gary.... Good genetic stock, at low density (or rather optimum density) in a food rich environment with excellent water quality and no other limiting factors. As an example, Ashmead has a relatively low stock density of really good quality carp (quite slow-growing but long-lived), shed loads of natural food year round (from small rudd to gamers, swan mussels, snails, bloodworm.....), and only rainwater fed, on mineral rich alluvial clay.

Remember the Redmire carp grew big in an undisturbed environment before they were fished for.... Look at Clarissa and the 58 Walker netted in the shallows, even if you don't believe in the uncaught monsters.....

Such places will always be thin on the ground - that's what makes them so special.
Many thanks Skeff :Hat: - I must say, I wish Walker had taken a pic of that 58; that would have been something.

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