How large will King Carp grow, naturally...?

[Gary Bills]

It's strange, isn't it, that for several years the average carp angler must have - quite rightly - given up on all personal dreams of a record carp?
This is partly due to expanding knowledge, of course: the certainty that even if the great unfished lake of dreams is found, no fish that special water will contain will be larger than 40lbs, let alone 60 plus; in fact, the fish will be considerably smaller than that, most likely. Before the mid-Eighties, in truth, the idea that an average carp water would certainly hold 20 pound carp would have been greeted with derision.
So what has changed? - farmed carp and carp reliant on mass baiting, pellets and boilies - carp, in fact, that do not exist in a natural or even in a half-natural state?
I wonder if members have any ideas what weight a king carp could be expected to reach in a water which is hardly ever fished, if at all, and where the carp are reliant on natural food for growth?
I heard one account in the past - which I half recall - about a small lake which held Leneys but which had never been fished. When it was finally drained, the largest carp was 49lbs or so - and this was a very rich natural water. Is that weight, then the likely maximum, unless the fish is carrying a great deal of spawn, of course? I would welcome the views of fellow TFF members.

[Dave Burr]

Interesting subject Gary but it must depend on an infinite number of factors. Fish tend to grow to their surroundings and carp, let lose in a world of clear water (I think this helps weed and insect populations), plenty of room and limitless food can grow to enormous size. Give them plenty of warm daylight and the ultimate size will grow yet further.

In other countries where the temperature is higher the fish grow to 60lb + with relative ease. I have heard of a distant and unfished lake in Australia where they reached in excess of 90lbs!

But as for catching a record. How many of us have fished waters that contain a record? Be it carp, pike, roach, dace, tench, bream etc If you look down the list of records of those fish the vast majority of us would be content with a fish of half that size. When I started out it was roach that stirred the dreams but how long was it before the old 3.14 record was beaten? How many of us have got within a pound and a half of it?

Records are special and unknown waters containing natural monsters are rare. I am content trying to catch the largest fish in my swim or searching a water for an outsize fish but I also enjoy the modest ones along the way.

[Olly]

The "world" record is a 100+ carp caught after moving from a 146,000 acre lake in eastern Europe to a smaller 'pond' for anglers to catch! Living in a lake/reservoir of that size it is unlikely that it saw mountains of bait or many anglers!

In the UK there are not many waters that size although the proportionally huge trout reservoirs could produce carp of a big/huge size on natural food.

It is the strain of fish also comes into play to produce a monster fish.

[Chris Bettis]

What an interesting Post! I will not venture a reply as I lack the necessary knowledge or indeed carp fishing experience in a sufficiently wide range of carp waters to do so but I look foward to the comments of other members who do.

[Shaun Harrison]

So many different factors involved. It does make me shake my head in disbelief when boilies and pellets are immediately brought into conversation as soon as big carp are mentioned. Take a look at the massive weight gains of the perch, chub and barbel a few years back on the Ouse to pick a well known example. Did those perch reach silly sizes on boilies and pellet? Of course they didn't.
The parentage (strain of fish) has a massive effect along with the natural food supply. Most anglers use boilies made from ingredients that aren't going to pile a lot of weight on the fish but will often benefit the natural bug life.
Most mention the fish Donald Leney stocked around the U.K. The reality of those were that they would reach 30lb in exceptional waters and the odd freak and spawn carrying one would grow a bit larger but 40lb was getting to the limits. Remember Chris Yates's 50 was a bloated 38.

[Gary Bills]

Many thanks guys - I asked the question because, reading accounts from the Fifties and Sixties, it seemed as if most carp anglers fished most lakes with the idea that a 'monster' might turn up, - and we can see with hindsight that Walker's record was secure for years, simply because fish approaching that weight must have been very few and far between, including in Redmire.
Record fish - I've had only one experience where I thought a record might be possible - and that was during my pike days. Members of 'my' group had all caught pike over 20lbs, and were used to seeing pike in the water - but four anglers, including me, believed we had seen a fat pike in one water which was at least 50 inches long, possibly more. Did we catch it? Of course not: but casting out the dead-baits took on an extra thrill for a while....

[Gary Bills]

A local tackle shop told me it sells several tons of manufactured baits a week, the majority of which no doubt go into local lakes, where the fish are much larger than in the past. It doesn't seem unreasonable to suggest fish size is related to the amount of food piled in.

Records are largely meaningless in my view, especially when big fish are stocked with records in mind.

I think this must be true, Firebird - especially when some lakes have automatic boilie guns blasting out feed night and day, so I've heard; and that means the fish caught from such waters are artificially weighty, man-fed and therefore not living in a natural state - which does raise the question mark over the value of records.
Dave Burr's reply is wise and sensible, I think; - so - shall we fish for good looking fish instead? - or like the Americans, place greater importance on the length of a fish..?
I'm stirring here, of course! But this is an interesting debate.

[Shaun Harrison]

Where are these waters with automatic boilie guns? I've never come across one in my 39 years of travelling the U.K. and Europe carp angling.
I must get a price list into them.

[RBTraditional]

Just asked a few of the lads down the local lake and it would appear that the automatic boillie guns are employed for self defence against bait boats entering your swim or drones entering your airspace whilst you are "fishing" (rod minding).......this gives the "angler" (rod minder) more time to drink those stellas and roll a big biffta unharrassed......

[Shaun Harrison]

Thankfully bait boats are banned everywhere I fish although we had a B.C.S.G. Fish in on a water last year that does see a lot of bait boat use. Interestingly our weekend was one of the most productive the lake had seen. I guess the carp had never come across a catapult spread before. Anyway, back on track, the biggest carp I have known have generally got that way by being one of the few in the lake. Shellfish abundance really helps as does the right ph to allow shellfish to do well.