Ivan Marks on 'blacks'

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Ian
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Re: Ivan Marks on 'blacks'

Post by Ian » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:49 am

Shaun Harrison wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:28 am
Ian wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:37 am
Shaun Harrison wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:10 pm
Ian wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:17 am
If I have to start thinking about the weight of a hooked caster then I know it’s time to give up fishing.the only time weight will make a difference is with pike and perch,everything else will just suck the bait up.way too technical.
Please explain your theories?
Myself I have often dropped a hook size before bites have been forthcoming. Surely that is a weight issue and the caster/maggot/worm or whatever not behaving quite the same as the loose bait?
I never said you don’t have to think about it Shaun,I’m talking about myself.theory explained.
I'm interested in why pike and perch are more affected?
I have had pike on the rivers dragging a lot of weight behind them (necessary to hold in a flow) with paternostered baits. Sometimes they come straight back into the slack water but seem undeterred by a lead jangling and dragging behind them.
Shaun,pike being finicky is something I find difficult to explain,it could be pressure from fishing,they may be getting wise.pike,as we all know are predators and have been since time began.sometimes they will sit and wait to ambush,sometimes they will battle ram a shoal and sometimes they will scavenge.when scavenging in winter they have time to study the bait and in our unprotected waters,where a lot of pike have been taken for the pot,I truly believe they are learning.that is the only explanation I have because I know if I found an unfished loch full of pike,I could put a fish finger on two 1/0 trebles and catch the pike.loch Lomond is a good example,the pike in there have now wisened up to sea baits.overfishing has to be the answer.
With perch,I don’t know if it’s the weight they feel or if it’s the line rubbing on them that makes them drop the bait,but they do.obviously when using maggots they can swallow the bait and the hook is set before they feel anything else,but with lobs and deadbaits it’s a different story as they need time to swallow them.never use a bait runner for perch,the second the spool turns and they will drop the bait.always fish with plenty of slack line on an indicator,giving them plenty of time to take the bait.im talking about the 2lb+ perch,all the others are still learning ha.
Don’t cast doubt,cast out.

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Phil Arnott
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Re: Ivan Marks on 'blacks'

Post by Phil Arnott » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:31 pm

Mitch300 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:21 am
This a fascinating thread! Perhaps someone can explain this observation. Years ago, when I used to fish the Thames in Winter, ledgered maggots would always yield plenty of bites from gudgeon (obviously indicated with a swing-tip). When I switched to a couple of casters, I got no bites from gudgeon but occasionally caught roach. Both baits were offered on a bronze Mustad size 16. Did the gudgeon have no interest in or dislike something about casters, leaving them for the roach to try? Did their barbules tell them that maggots were worth eating but casters were not? Any ideas?

G. B.
I once came across some gudgeon which refused to take maggot but were happy to take a small piece of worm. I've also come across roach which would not take maggot which I suspected (like the gudgeon), was because they had never seen an angler or a maggot before. I used to then catch some caddis fly lavae which they invariable took without hesitation. In both cases I could see the fish. I think fish sometimes need time to get used to a bait.

When fishing for roach on rivers I often feed hemp and maggots in groundbait of the right consistency to carry the feed to the bottom. My preference would be to fish caster in the groundbait if I can get any and I will often still fish maggot on the hook. What is interesting is that I consistently catch bigger roach if I use caster in the groundbait. Are the roach in the swim but normally not taking maggot or are the larger roach attracted into the swim? I don't know but I suspect the former.

I'm quite happy some days just to feed fish and watch them rather than fish for them. You can learn an awful lot by watching fish. Constant feeding not only encourages fish to start feeding on a bait you can fish on the hook but also attract fish into a swim when there were none to start with. You can watch this happen. One day I had some old maggots and decided to feed them into a local small stream and after a few minutes of feeding I had around eight dace in the swim averaging around 4oz. I decide to try and feed to the fish until they had had enough and kept on feeding in the maggots. They were still feeding avidly after I'd fed in half a pint. I was astounded by how much they could eat and a lesson was learnt. One other observation when river fishing - If you throw in a huge handful of maggots to a shoal of fish they often don't like it and leave the swim. If you start off with a few and gradually increase the amount as they start feeding they are usually quite happy.
Last edited by Phil Arnott on Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Troydog
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Re: Ivan Marks on 'blacks'

Post by Troydog » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:00 pm

In his book, Ivan Marks on Match Fishing, he gives several reasons for making casters a favourite bait. One is that they hit the bottom but do not bury into the gravel and silt: they stay visible. Another is that different coloured casters are at a different stage of development, therefore, unlike maggots casters fall at a different rate thereby making it difficult for fish to judge which one contains the hook.
Secondly, Ivan always fished size 20 or maybe sometimes 18 because he was convinced that the smaller the hook the better the presentation. He says “ if you ever see me using a 14 in match, go away and put your house on me “ {his dad was a book maker!!)
It’s a great book.....
Trouble is, the fish just don't read the books......
John Harding

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Michael
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Re: Ivan Marks on 'blacks'

Post by Michael » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:51 pm

I couldn't agree more Troydog, Ivan's books are still a mine of information and advice, I have both which are;
Ivan Marks on Match Fishing 1975
Float Fishing with Ivan Marks 1978
Both cracking reads!
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth
Marcus Aurelius

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Troydog
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Re: Ivan Marks on 'blacks'

Post by Troydog » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:38 pm

Ah thanks Michael, I haven't come across the second one, but it looks like I need to go online!! I've given up waiting to find these gems in second hand book shops - I'm just not going to live long enough.....
Trouble is, the fish just don't read the books......
John Harding

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Michael
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Re: Ivan Marks on 'blacks'

Post by Michael » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:51 pm

Troydog, I happen to believe that Ivans - Float Fishing, to be the best of the two. It goes into his theories, ideas, beliefs and answers in relation to float fishing.
It was given to me as a present, when it was first published. Up until then, I thought a float was just simply a float.
I'm still finding his book useful, some 40 years later!
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth
Marcus Aurelius

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DaceAce
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Re: Ivan Marks on 'blacks'

Post by DaceAce » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:58 pm

Two other Ivan Marks books to look out for are 'Ivan Marks: The People's Champion' (now out of print and sought after but on Kindle) which is about a quarter of his column (113 out of about 450 columns) in Angling Times from 1972 to 1980, and the one that I wrote, 'Ivan Marks and The Likely Lads' (from Calm Productions or Amazon).

One story I dug out in talking to the Likely Lads was about the day they ended up on a Great Ouse backwater after the match they were all meant to fish had been flooded off. Only Ivan fished, probably on a stick float and he caught dace, roach and chub steadily but from time to time one of the other Likely Lads would have a go with Ivan's gear and not one of them could catch a fish despite their exemplary skills.

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Michael
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Re: Ivan Marks on 'blacks'

Post by Michael » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:30 pm

Yes, it was amiss of me not to include those two as well, especially yours Mark, I apologise!

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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth
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Match Aerial
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Re: Ivan Marks on 'blacks'

Post by Match Aerial » Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:42 pm

DaceAce wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:58 pm

One story I dug out in talking to the Likely Lads was about the day they ended up on a Great Ouse backwater after the match they were all meant to fish had been flooded off. Only Ivan fished, probably on a stick float and he caught dace, roach and chub steadily but from time to time one of the other Likely Lads would have a go with Ivan's gear and not one of them could catch a fish despite their exemplary skills.
Come across that myself a few times . Just goes to show we are not born equal.

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