The Traditional Fisherman's Forum

Ian wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:17 am If I have to start thinking about the weight of a hooked caster then I know it’s time to give up fishing.the only time weight will make a difference is with pike and perch,everything else will just suck the bait up.way too technical.

Please explain your theories?
Myself I have often dropped a hook size before bites have been forthcoming. Surely that is a weight issue and the caster/maggot/worm or whatever not behaving quite the same as the loose bait?

I was taught a lesson by a mixed shoal of small fish about fifty years back.
They were taking loose maggots and studiously ignoring the one on the hook. The more I reduced the hook size, the nearer they seemed to get to slipping up, but although a size twenty, the smallest I had, didn't speed the bait's fall up too much (every larger size might just has well have been anchor; even I wouldn't have fallen for it!), something still wasn't right.

It was only when I remembered a dodge I'd read and side-hooked the maggot, so it sank not only at the same speed, but in the same attitude as the free offerings, that I caught anything.

Proportion is everything; the extra suck that a fish will give to pick up a mussel on a number six hook is far greater than the extra it will grant a single maggot - if the food doesn't behave more-or-less "right" for its size, it is viewed with suspicion, and the "more-or-less" margin shrinks with the size of the food.

I concur with Shaun & Vole. Especially when using a sensative float like the Drennan Stillwater Blue, on the drop......

Vole wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:53 pm I was taught a lesson by a mixed shoal of small fish about fifty years back.
They were taking loose maggots and studiously ignoring the one on the hook. The more I reduced the hook size, the nearer they seemed to get to slipping up, but although a size twenty, the smallest I had, didn't speed the bait's fall up too much (every larger size might just has well have been anchor; even I wouldn't have fallen for it!), something still wasn't right.

Interesting comment Vole - I've often fished for fish taking baits "on the drop" and they have been very big fish - roach, rudd and perch. I've had the same experience of more bites by dropping the hook size also more bites by going finer on the line and even placing the hook inside the maggot.They still make few mistakes.

I once saw Ian Heaps fishing for stillwater chub (on the TV) which were taking maggots on the drop. He fished shallow and continuously feed maggots around the float until a fish eventually make a mistake. I think this is the correct tactic for fish like these and these days you can fish a pole with the lightest line and soft elastic.

It's also interesting that the same finicky fish like this often take a big bait on a relatively large hook and heavier line fished on the bottom at dusk.

Well if someone can explain to me why if in the middle of bagging up on a size 16 and suddenly find it hard to hook up,how come if I go up to a size 12 I can start hooking them again.
I doubt very much that a size 18 make any difference in weight to a 16 or 20.i think it’s just another excuse for poor fishing days hahaha.
Olly,if you don’t think weight matters to pike then come up here,they can lift and drop a bait within 2 seconds and they won’t come back for a second try.same with perch.they may be greedy fish,but they also learn quickly and after being returned a couple of times,can be very hard to catch.

Troydog wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:50 am Ha - nice one Ian!! Its all part of the stuff you need to think about after retirement when great gaps open up between 9 and 5 on Monday to Friday.....

I get what you mean troydog,a fisherman’s brain needs fed haha.

Shaun Harrison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:10 pm

Ian wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:17 am If I have to start thinking about the weight of a hooked caster then I know it’s time to give up fishing.the only time weight will make a difference is with pike and perch,everything else will just suck the bait up.way too technical.

Please explain your theories?
Myself I have often dropped a hook size before bites have been forthcoming. Surely that is a weight issue and the caster/maggot/worm or whatever not behaving quite the same as the loose bait?

I never said you don’t have to think about it Shaun,I’m talking about myself.theory explained.

Ian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:37 am

Shaun Harrison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:10 pm

Ian wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:17 am If I have to start thinking about the weight of a hooked caster then I know it’s time to give up fishing.the only time weight will make a difference is with pike and perch,everything else will just suck the bait up.way too technical.

Please explain your theories?
Myself I have often dropped a hook size before bites have been forthcoming. Surely that is a weight issue and the caster/maggot/worm or whatever not behaving quite the same as the loose bait?

I never said you don’t have to think about it Shaun,I’m talking about myself.theory explained.

I'm interested in why pike and perch are more affected?
I have had pike on the rivers dragging a lot of weight behind them (necessary to hold in a flow) with paternostered baits. Sometimes they come straight back into the slack water but seem undeterred by a lead jangling and dragging behind them.

What I find is slight aterations like changing from say a size 14 hook to a size 16 don't really make much difference. However I find more drasitic changes like a 14 to a 20 do make a difference and result is you taking a few extra fish out if a swim.
I think its more to do with visablity because you can get a similar response by instead of just hooking the maggot through the eyes like you normally do. Try threading a maggot and you get a similar extra few fish just like going smaller in hook size.
Changing line dia by only tiny amounts makes little difference also in my opinion.

One can increase catch rates, I find, by both increasing or decreasing hook size, but I suspect that this occurs for different reasons. Going smaller because the fish can see or feel bigger hooks, and alternatively, going larger works because the fish find it harder to spit out bigger hooks once baits are mouthed. Increasing /decreasing the distance of the tell tale shot also works, as does shotting pattern, as does reducing line thickness, as does changing the colour of one's maggot or number, sometimes two are better than one, and vice versa. One can also increase catch rates by putting on a smaller or larger float.

So basically all one has to do to increase one's catch rate is to make changes. The trick is to make the right changes according to the conditions and how the fish are feeding at the moment, which can also change during a session. Etc etc etc