The Traditional Fisherman's Forum

It's four in the morning and I can't sleep so I'm having a further study of these marvellous pictures accumulating on this thread.
I am reasonably sure the rod being held by CB is likely to be the Ravioli Mk IV Carp,it has agates all the way on the rings that are in the picture. The Nobby provided picture must be the Avon of course so a different beast entirely.... Surely?

Question for Nobby please.
Cos I can't sleep, I am having a perhaps overlong study of the Bishop pic of which I
have only ever seen the regular offering before.
Question is, - Is that CY in that study of the Bishop, The hands do not possess the boney Yatesy appearance in my opinion! None Intended...

More:- Further study shows clearly inters on the CY held rod of which none can be
seen at all on CB's rod.

I'm off upstairs now.

QC,

I don't think there is any doubt that Walker and Yates caught their record fish on different rods.

Remember that Yates was in his 30's when he caught the Bishop so of course his hands will look more distinctly youthful. (Mine have changed dramatically between the ages of 40 and now nearly 50.)

I've had to smile at the description of swelled butts as I was thinking: crikey Walker really did develop the MkIV taper. Many fly rods were and are built with swelled butts – this refers to the cane nearest to the handle dramatically increasing in taper rather than the small collar of cork at the base of the handle designed to retain the reel bands.

QuinetteCane wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:07 am Question is, - Is that CY in that study of the Bishop, The hands do not possess the boney Yatesy appearance in my opinion!

No, it is not CY in that photo, it is David Short. The photo below has the caption: Syndicate member David Short poses with the leviathan.

My understanding was that CY caught his record fish, The Bishop, with an Avon Mk.IV. Whereas Richard Walker said he caught the earlier record carp, Ravioli/Clarissa with one of the first B.James built 'standard' Mk.IV rods which he had only just received for approval. We have a copy elsewhere on here of the letter he wrote to 'Mr.James' ( actually Jim Bruce of course) being somewhat critical of his writing on the rods and offering to sign them himself....which he apparently did do to , as he later wrote, to the ''first couple of batches''.


We need Chris Ball to drop in and tell us what that photo with Chris Yates was all about!

Ahh sleep deprivation!
Thank you gentlemen all for the replies.

Snape- I was in a befuddled condition whilst posting my previous missive,
The figure although headless in that picture just did not look to have the
Yatesey appearance of the standard Bishop posed pic, I'm not aware of the
publication it is from, so I just had to ask, having become of an inquisitive
nature in my advanced declining years.
CY hands are of course that of a graceful musician... and also not a finger
furniture wearer that I can recall.

Beresford- I was my intent only to spot that the pictured rods could not be the same.
I seem to have written other than my intent, for which I can only fully apologise.

On a visit to Chapmans just after they had moved into their last Bowling Road
premises John had in his office a finished MkIV Avon blank which had a parallel
Split cane handle made all in one piece which had that 'swelled butt' look to it.
When I made a fuss of it John was quite encouraging for me to purchase one!
It's just a pity the design has the taper change disappear under the shives.
John did mention they had advised RW to make his Mk IV like so, as an easier
alternative to the seperate handle version of his own design of the time.

As ever None Intended.

Add... I see more posts have appeared whilst I was slowly composing this piece.
I love this place! Thanks all.

Nobby wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:22 pm My understanding was that CY caught his record fish, The Bishop, with an Avon Mk.IV. Whereas Richard Walker said he caught the earlier record carp, Ravioli/Clarissa with one of the first B.James built 'standard' Mk.IV rods which he had only just received for approval. We have a copy elsewhere on here of the letter he wrote to 'Mr.James' ( actually Jim Bruce of course) being somewhat critical of his writing on the rods and offering to sign them himself....which he apparently did do to , as he later wrote, to the ''first couple of batches''.


We need Chris Ball to drop in and tell us what that photo with Chris Yates was all about!

My understanding, until recently, was that Walker caught Ravioli on a rod he built himself and Yates caught the Bishop on a Walker build Avon. However, having read this thread I don't know which rod Walker really caught the 44 on, a MkIV rod of his own making, a James early rod, his MkIII?

It now seems there is no doubt that Yates caught the Bishop on a James Avon.

The RW MkIII ringing was quite different from the MkIV having only one ring on the butt section. It can be picked out occasionally in some of those early pictures
especially in these days of the zooming in availability.
The MkIV was (in my opinion anyway) designed to cast unleaded lines (freelined potato). A lead of any great size impairs casting and even quite small deadbaits outgun them entirely, A Hardy JJ Spinning rod being my preferred weapon for that.
Three lobworms however freelined on the MkIV would travel a pleasing distance.
I wonder if such seeming oversights in writings of the time was aimed at not confusing the sales of MkIV's for B.James benefit. RW had nothing to gain from it.

The picture showing a headless figure kneeling behind the 51 and the James Avon is in fact Barry Mills.

Ohh, Snape! I'm aware I am doing spot the difference but bear with me!
The second picture has the figure still in waders but sans the jacket from the first pic.
I wonder then If all those present took turns having a picture taken with the
Bishop.... Well why not.
I'll stop now.... give all a rest.

JPC's post just now came up. Seems a strong likelihood then!

Oddly, in a letter Dick Walker sent to JB Walker (published in their catalogue), Dick Walker claims he caught Ravioli on a rod he made from cane supplied by JB Walker ! Not a B. James rod. I still don't get all this marketing deception mumbo jumbo, claiming Walker was lying, when he would have known that the letter to JB Walker was in print and available to read by the public. Perhaps, rather than lying, when he wrote about the rod that caught Ravioli, he had partly forgotten, and wrote down the wrong make. Or was JB Walker supplying B.James with blanks specifically for the MKIV rods during this experimentation time?

In the order of his writings of the night in question, which piece was chronologicaly first? The piece that said he used a JB Walker rod, a B James rod, or any other rod??