Re: have you seen this
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:38 pm
One can buy a perfectly serviceable watch for five pounds on the market,or spend considerably more on one.
The Traditional Fisherman's Forum
https://www.traditionalfisherman.com/
You may laugh at this but my best mate has fished all of his life, he doesn't go onto forums etc but does go onto Facebook southeast and Thames fishing as he's predominantly a sea angler and does do a small amount of coarse fishing aswell,Tweed wrote:Agree with almost all of that. How much value there'll be in twenty years time remains to be seen, but I'd be taking the short view myself. Nobody in twenty years will have a clue about Walker, Allcock let alone Ustonson, in my opinion. It also seems to me that one can acquire a perfectly serviceable cane rod for between £60 (run of the mill fly rods at auction) up to £400 for a new coarse rod.STUART WHITING wrote:No fishing rods as such are classified as an investment, collectors items yes I can totally agree with but holding value not particularly,
A collection of various rods that may of been owned by famous anglers and ledgends may hold a few quid but in reality a rod is only ever worth what people are willing to pay,
A few reels over the years have supposedly held a bit of investment, mainly centre pins but this is with exception as most other reels don't generally hold much value,
In terms of angling the only items that I can really say hold any value to them are very good quality first edition angling books
Anbody's guess what will hold value long term.
Have to disagree about Walker and Allcocks being forgotten about in 20 years, in the case of Walker I think that he will always have a following.Tweed wrote:Agree with almost all of that. How much value there'll be in twenty years time remains to be seen, but I'd be taking the short view myself. Nobody in twenty years will have a clue about Walker, Allcock let alone Ustonson, in my opinion. It also seems to me that one can acquire a perfectly serviceable cane rod for between £60 (run of the mill fly rods at auction) up to £400 for a new coarse rod.STUART WHITING wrote:No fishing rods as such are classified as an investment, collectors items yes I can totally agree with but holding value not particularly,
A collection of various rods that may of been owned by famous anglers and ledgends may hold a few quid but in reality a rod is only ever worth what people are willing to pay,
A few reels over the years have supposedly held a bit of investment, mainly centre pins but this is with exception as most other reels don't generally hold much value,
In terms of angling the only items that I can really say hold any value to them are very good quality first edition angling books
Anbody's guess what will hold value long term.
Not meaning to be contentious (which I normally assiduously avoid) ... but ...Tweed wrote:Nobody in twenty years will have a clue about Walker, Allcock let alone Ustonson, in my opinion. It also seems to me that one can acquire a perfectly serviceable cane rod for between £60 (run of the mill fly rods at auction) up to £400 for a new coarse rod.
Very good and interesting write up, many of the words I can associate with being true especially about vintage tackle and famous ledgends,AshbyCut wrote:Not meaning to be contentious (which I normally assiduously avoid) ... but ...Tweed wrote:Nobody in twenty years will have a clue about Walker, Allcock let alone Ustonson, in my opinion. It also seems to me that one can acquire a perfectly serviceable cane rod for between £60 (run of the mill fly rods at auction) up to £400 for a new coarse rod.
a) I can imagine a couple of chaps sitting around the fire of an inn in 1660, supping an ale or two after reading 'The Compleat Angler' and opining "Walton ? No-one will have heard of him in 20 years time !" How wrong were they ?
I have every confidence that the younger generation coming through such forums as this will secure the future of 'traditional angling, in it's history/techniques/literature/tackle/et al for generations to come. Such writings as those published by our own 'The Sweetcorn Kid' (Stuart Harris) enrich the tradition and secure it's future.
b) In the past I've bought 'perfectly serviceable' cars from a certain internet auction site because they were all I could afford. They got me from A to B, so no complaints.
When I came back from 'the dark side' in angling I started by buying rods from the same site on the same basis ... 'serviceable, cheap, and utilitarian.' As my knowledge and experience grew, and I learned about 'action,' and 'craftsmanship,' and most importantly 'THE FEEL.'
When I think that even a basic craftsman in any profession is impossible to hire at under £25 an hour these days ... and that it can take 50+ hours to make a new rod from scratch (not including materials) ... I'm amazed that new prices are so low given that the makers have to pay tax/business rates/etc !!!
In my view, there will always be a market for quality ... never mind rarity ... and there will always be people who will be prepared to pay for it. I'm extremely fortunate that I've been able to acquire a few rods recently which somewhat exceed the "£400" mentioned above ... I am happy that the pleasure I've gained from becoming their guardian for a while entirely justifies the price I paid ... and that there will be people in the years to come who feel the same way.
I stress ... just my opinion ... and at my age the idea of 'taking the long view' is not really an option... but I believe our 'obsession' has a 'long view.'
A very well argued piece, I would just raise a couple of points in response:AshbyCut wrote:Not meaning to be contentious (which I normally assiduously avoid) ... but ...Tweed wrote:Nobody in twenty years will have a clue about Walker, Allcock let alone Ustonson, in my opinion. It also seems to me that one can acquire a perfectly serviceable cane rod for between £60 (run of the mill fly rods at auction) up to £400 for a new coarse rod.
a) I can imagine a couple of chaps sitting around the fire of an inn in 1660, supping an ale or two after reading 'The Compleat Angler' and opining "Walton ? No-one will have heard of him in 20 years time !" How wrong were they ?
I have every confidence that the younger generation coming through such forums as this will secure the future of 'traditional angling, in it's history/techniques/literature/tackle/et al for generations to come. Such writings as those published by our own 'The Sweetcorn Kid' (Stuart Harris) enrich the tradition and secure it's future.
b) In the past I've bought 'perfectly serviceable' cars from a certain internet auction site because they were all I could afford. They got me from A to B, so no complaints.
When I came back from 'the dark side' in angling I started by buying rods from the same site on the same basis ... 'serviceable, cheap, and utilitarian.' As my knowledge and experience grew, and I learned about 'action,' and 'craftsmanship,' and most importantly 'THE FEEL.'
When I think that even a basic craftsman in any profession is impossible to hire at under £25 an hour these days ... and that it can take 50+ hours to make a new rod from scratch (not including materials) ... I'm amazed that new prices are so low given that the makers have to pay tax/business rates/etc !!!
In my view, there will always be a market for quality ... never mind rarity ... and there will always be people who will be prepared to pay for it. I'm extremely fortunate that I've been able to acquire a few rods recently which somewhat exceed the "£400" mentioned above ... I am happy that the pleasure I've gained from becoming their guardian for a while entirely justifies the price I paid ... and that there will be people in the years to come who feel the same way.
I stress ... just my opinion ... and at my age the idea of 'taking the long view' is not really an option... but I believe our 'obsession' has a 'long view.'
Now I like this bit of write up aswell Tweed, to me this makes perfect sence aswell,Tweed wrote:A very well argued piece, I would just raise a couple of points in response:AshbyCut wrote:Not meaning to be contentious (which I normally assiduously avoid) ... but ...Tweed wrote:Nobody in twenty years will have a clue about Walker, Allcock let alone Ustonson, in my opinion. It also seems to me that one can acquire a perfectly serviceable cane rod for between £60 (run of the mill fly rods at auction) up to £400 for a new coarse rod.
a) I can imagine a couple of chaps sitting around the fire of an inn in 1660, supping an ale or two after reading 'The Compleat Angler' and opining "Walton ? No-one will have heard of him in 20 years time !" How wrong were they ?
I have every confidence that the younger generation coming through such forums as this will secure the future of 'traditional angling, in it's history/techniques/literature/tackle/et al for generations to come. Such writings as those published by our own 'The Sweetcorn Kid' (Stuart Harris) enrich the tradition and secure it's future.
b) In the past I've bought 'perfectly serviceable' cars from a certain internet auction site because they were all I could afford. They got me from A to B, so no complaints.
When I came back from 'the dark side' in angling I started by buying rods from the same site on the same basis ... 'serviceable, cheap, and utilitarian.' As my knowledge and experience grew, and I learned about 'action,' and 'craftsmanship,' and most importantly 'THE FEEL.'
When I think that even a basic craftsman in any profession is impossible to hire at under £25 an hour these days ... and that it can take 50+ hours to make a new rod from scratch (not including materials) ... I'm amazed that new prices are so low given that the makers have to pay tax/business rates/etc !!!
In my view, there will always be a market for quality ... never mind rarity ... and there will always be people who will be prepared to pay for it. I'm extremely fortunate that I've been able to acquire a few rods recently which somewhat exceed the "£400" mentioned above ... I am happy that the pleasure I've gained from becoming their guardian for a while entirely justifies the price I paid ... and that there will be people in the years to come who feel the same way.
I stress ... just my opinion ... and at my age the idea of 'taking the long view' is not really an option... but I believe our 'obsession' has a 'long view.'
1. Walton: This was an early book, and one of a limited range of books from that era. Good publicity and marketing will always prevail to some extent, or in fact to the extent of your ability to convince. This can be either active or passive as in the case of a hare set running - Walton. I think we discussed this book recently. A number of commentators claim to loathe it, and others claim it to be a political pamphlet of subversion and nothing to do with fishing. I'd be surprised if many trouble to read it. Nonetheless it remains an iconic work.
2. Price: As you probably know there is a theory of the market place, and ultimately a price at which a buyer and seller will strike a deal. You correctly point to this being relatively low regarding bamboo rods in the UK generally speaking. A manufacturer might strive to increase prices, but of course there is competition to contend with. One way to get round this is by differentiating one's product in the market. Social and commercial media can assist in this, if harnessed effectively, of course. How long the differential will endure is crystal ball territory.
3. Age demography of readership. I'm not sure what the age demography on this board is, but I'd take a guess thus:
80+ 10%
70 - 80 20%
60 - 70 20%
50 - 60 20%
40 - 50 20%
0 - 40 10%