The one that landed Clarissa

[Gary Bills]

How many MK III rods were built?

One only, not counting the odd modern repro....It's currently owned by Chris Ball, I think, who has used it....

Was Maurice Inghams rod a MK III or a MK IV?
Best regards
Jardine

My understanding is that this is a very complicated question, Jardine: because Ingham's "whopper stopper" was neither a MK III not a MKIV but a heavier rod that, nonetheless, was a Walker blank/design. I touched on this in an article for The Carping Gnome:

"Somewhere during this period of development, another rod appeared - one that CCC member Maurice Ingham called his "Whopper Stopper". But this rod doesn't seem to fit the accepted narrative for the development of the Mk IV, because it was such a powerful weapon - akin, perhaps, to the Stepped-Up (SU) carp rods that were to emerge much later.
Clifford discusses this rod at some length, noting: "Maurice confirmed that this was the one mentioned in their book, 'Drop Me A Line".
Clifford also mentions an entry in Dick Kefford's diary, where Ingham's "Whopper Stopper" is called "the Mk I, made by Dick..."
But it was not the MKI actually described by Walker, because that was apparently akin to a shortened Wallace Wizard and, indeed, may have been a sawn-off Wizard! What, then, was Ingham's rod..? And where now is Ingham's rod?

[Gary Bills]

I may have answered my last question, due to a recent fascinating post by Tengisgol, which I've just spotted... is it just me, but does that rod look a little too beefy for a MK IV?

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=20874&p=283629&hil ... am#p283629

[Nobby]

I sold my original B James Mk4 because it had developed a "set" in the top joint, perhaps due to Raspberry! I don't think the cane was of the best so probably not Southwell's. In 1966 I heard about "Weasel Cane", devised by Walker and Fred Buller, where built cane was pressed with a hot iron (hence the name) to make it "steelier" and, it was said, "virtually unbreakable". Fred let me have a "Richard Walker Weasel Carp Rod Mk4", but a couple of years later the top joint shattered into six separate strips - the rod was only slightly bent at the time! I took it to Bob Southwell who built me another top joint - and refused to accept any money! Whether that was because he knew I was in the angling press or because it was originally his cane, I don't know. I still use that rod today.

Chris Ball needs to see this post! He may have a letter which will interest you all. I'll e-mail him now.......

[Gary Bills]

How many MK III rods were built?

One only, not counting the odd modern repro....It's currently owned by Chris Ball, I think, who has used it....

Was Maurice Inghams rod a MK III or a MK IV?
Best regards
Jardine

Neither Jardine - earlier than both, circa 1949

[Moorhen]

Using "Drop me a line" and "The carp godfather" for reference suggests the following.
The first rod DW built was similar to a Wallis rod with 12ins. removed from the tip.
DMAL suggests that the MKII and MKIII were of the same design and date to 1949 or earlier. The MKII was single-built with a 3/4in. beech dowel in the butt, while the MKIII was double-built. Walker commented that the MKIII is a little stiffer in the butt.
However, in 1955 DW contradicts this and states that the MKII was of split-cane throughout and also that the MKIII had a steeper taper in the butt section.
DMAL also makes it clear that DW built one other MKIII, for a friend, using double-built blanks supplied by J.B.Walker.
Depending on how one interprets the information, the first rod Ingham made was either a MKII or a single-built MKIII with a Beech dowel in the butt.
The MKIV is dimensioned on page 278 of DMAL where it is simply described as a Light Carp Rod. I suspect that the MKIII may have been the better Carp Rod, especially when single-built; and DW certainly enjoyed using it. Walker's MKIII has intermediate whippings, which he later stopped using, and appears to have had 2 different handles.
Because DW wrote so much and at speed, he could be careless and contradictory. He muddled up handle and blank lengths in DMAL which may have later caused B. James problems with the first test rod which turned out slightly shorter than later rods.
We will never know for sure which rods were in use on the night the record was caught. What is certain is that the intention was to use both B.James test rods. Pete Thomas also made it clear in his account to the C.C.C at the time that 3 rods were in use; 2 by him and one by DW.
One can imagine that DW would prefer to report that he had smashed the record with a rod of his own design and construction.

[Macko]

Does anyone know who owns Yates'ys Walker built Avon now, which he broke the carp record with.

ATB Macko

[Nobby]

I think it has been mentioned on here that it was recently sold, but I'm not sure if the new owner wants it to be private.....possibly not since I heard about it.... he's a well-known tackle and lure collector who did a bit of TV both on fishing and was also in a famous soap opera.

[Gary Bills]

A most interesting post, Moorhen - we know that Walker liked using the MK III - at least for his 34lb common, and that he kept the rod long afterwards; if you are correct about Ingham's "Whopper Stopper" being a single-built MK III, then we have two CCC members preferring the MK III to the MK IV for the pursuit of large carp...
I know that many carpers today feel that the MK IV was a little too light for the larger fish....did Ingham and Walker share this view, as evidenced by their own practice?

[Moorhen]

You have the advantage over me where the "Whopper Stopper" is concerned, Gary, although it does ring a bell.
According to the "Godfather", Walker's MKII was still in use in 1955 and we know he caught the 34lbs. common with the MKIII in 1954 ; so he was obviously happy with both rods. He caught the "34" at a little range and used a fairly heavy lead for that time; maybe that influenced the choice of rod on that occasion.
These rods were arrived at by a process of trial and error which suggests that the MKs. II and III were slightly different.
Comparing the dimensions given for the MKII (?) and MKIV in DMAL is interesting. In the butt the MKIV is about 10% slimmer, but through the middle of the rod this increases to 15%. At 8 feet there is only a 5% difference but at the tip this has increased to 25%.
DW clearly (if my maths are correct) slimmed down the original rod by about 15% overall before stiffening the butt with an increase of around 8% and softening the tip with a reduction of around 10%. He actually describes this exact procedure in Still Water Angling.
I think he would have had a better rod if these adjustments had been made to the original blank. It's easy to criticize of course, but all of these rods were quite an achievement when you think of what else was available at that time, and factor in that he literally fashioned the cane himself. Also, the MKIV came about in 1951 when they were still fishing for fish appreciably smaller than the Redmire monsters. It's interesting that the MKIII was brought back in to play when he realized what he was up against and perhaps after his experience with the record fish.
I think B.James beefed up the later cane MKIV's. Perhaps they should have been re-named MKII's !!!
This has turned out to be a very long-winded way of saying I agree with what you suggest, Gary.
Since writing the above, I have found a copy of a letter which Maurice Ingham wrote to the C.C.C. in November 1951 in which he states " I have two which I have built to Dick's specification - usually referred to as the "heavy" and "light" models. The heavy model is a doughty weapon and is ideal for use in weedy water or where particularly large fish may be expected, but for general use the light model is absolutely ideal".
The "heavy" will have been the MKII/III and the light the MKIV. We can see from Ingham's comments that the heavy model would have been more appropriate for Redmire.

[Beresford]

It's all very interesting to read.

I have MkIV built in the early 1990's to Walker's taper that has a measured test curve of 2lb, exactly. Carp of around 15 – 18lbs still give me no end of bother using this MkIV. It does make me wonder what the taper used for the Whopper Stopper was.