The Super Wizard, is it less of a rod than a Wizard?

[OldTackle]

Not having read all through just a quick reply. I lately compared the tapers of the tip between a Wizard and a Super Wizard together with John Chapman. Both sections measure the exact same so we decided the Wizard replacement they offer will also be suitable for my SuperWizard.

[Nobby]

It's strange that Allcocks didn't build a 'normal' handle for the Wizard....I'd have expected whole cane throughout the butt too. Perhaps not on the later examples but the earlier gold label rods seem, on the whole, to have been built to a very high standard, with built-up ferrule stations and tenoned and serrated ferrules too. All time consuming stuff.

I've not built a sheet cork handle, but I imagine it's quicker than shaping a lot of shives?

I did once measure the taper of a Wizard, using a method I thought up at the time so it doesn't compare to anyone else's measurements , but I found a little compound taper in the tip section....11 inches in from the tip ring if memory serves...did you find anything similar Old tackle?

Wal, your Super Wizard looks to my mind what the rod should have been post War. I've handled one very late Wizard, from about 1967 and the handle had been quietly lengthened by Allcocks to just shy of 22 inches, without ever mentioning it in their Guides.

[OldTackle]

Hi Nobby,

11 inches... Now I really have to think about. I need to check but right at that distance my tip seems to have a weak spot and has a very tiny little droop which is even hard to see. That's why I ordered the Chapman's replacement section. Right now it's on its way to another member and friend of mine who agreed in collecting some stuff before sending it over altogether. So I can't compare 1:1 but I will definitely do as soon as I have it here. How did you estimate the taper Nobby? Did you calculate measuring the diameters stepwise to get the tapers angle? I think I should do that when time allows. With John, we compared bottom and tip diameters as well as lengths of course. If there would be a taper I am sure John would have known that as he (well, or his brother) had built them to a given table. We agreed on Wizard and SuperWizard sections should match.

Hope that helps so far.

Little update: My section droops a little in the area of the third ring from the tip (tip ring included). So a bit further down than where you obtained your taper Nobby. Of course nothing beats your well trained detective eyes, Sir. Also when I bend the tip I can't recognize a compound curve, so on mine there should be no taper. But to make sure I will measure when I stripped the section.

[SeanM]

That looks great Wal. I'm going to have to look out for another Wizard and have a go at a longer handle. They are not my favourite job - the last one I did was on a Fibatube FJT Trotter blank around 1990. From memory I don't think you can get any significant extra length on a gold label one without losing the transfer.

As we've discussed before on here there does seem to be a lot of variation in Wizards, but mine (probably from around 1950) was a lovely rod to play a fish on and quite "steely" in feel. The whole cane butt was significantly larger in diameter than my friend's later green/black label one and I suspect it was this that made the difference in feel.

My Wizard was restored before I started to measure my rods so I don't know if the tip was compound tapered. I wouldn't be surprised if it was though as I've found that many bottom rods from that era have compound tapered tips.

[Wallys-Cast]

That looks great Wal. I'm going to have to look out for another Wizard and have a go at a longer handle. They are not my favourite job - the last one I did was on a Fibatube FJT Trotter blank around 1990. From memory I don't think you can get any significant extra length on a gold label one without losing the transfer.

As we've discussed before on here there does seem to be a lot of variation in Wizards, but mine (probably from around 1950) was a lovely rod to play a fish on and quite "steely" in feel. The whole cane butt was significantly larger in diameter than my friend's later green/black label one and I suspect it was this that made the difference in feel.

My Wizard was restored before I started to measure my rods so I don't know if the tip was compound tapered. I wouldn't be surprised if it was though as I've found that many bottom rods from that era have compound tapered tips.

Yes Shaun, I think you would be lucky if you could add an inch to the gold label ones before covering the label up.

The only other way is to cut a few inches from the ferrule end and add this length to the butt end. I have done it on a few occasions with various rods and as the whole cane is more or less uniform in diameter it looks quite original again once finished.

Mind you a nice screw in butt extension is just as good at making the rod more useable and it keeps the rod original for its next owner, which many owners feel it should be.

I have noticed a definite compound taper in a few rod tips, some Millwards and I think Bernard Sealey tips have a sudden step down that can be felt as you slide the section between finger and thumb but some other makers like Aspindales are more subtle and the taper has to be measured to show a steady taper then a flat spot for an inch or so then taper again. I wondered if this was where the internal hollowing of the tip section actually stops.

There is quite a bit of thought gone into some of the old rods and it makes me wonder how much experimental work was carried out to get things like power plus lightness just right or fast a striking capability with light line friendliness.
I suppose this is where you here the saying "it just feels right" and why some of the older rods have that bit more desirability.

Nobby you are definitely right about the older Allcocks rods being better built. The fittings on my wizard are good quality as you would expect on a high end rod but the earlier rods had far more time put into them.

Not sure I would say a wrapped cork handle was an easy job though. It needs to be very good quality cork sheet and getting a good joint on a tapering handle is a nightmare, no give me a solid cork handle to do anytime.

I think Allcocks looked at wrapped cork as a superior finish as it was offered on the better rods.

Wal.

[Nobby]

Old Tackle, I measured the rods thickness, flat to flat, every 4 inches and recorded not only the actually measurement, but also a second figure that showed if that figure deviated from a straight line. That's why the little compound taper showed itself so clearly. If I'd have measured every 6 inches as most folk do I'd probably have missed it.

This was about 5 years ago but I found the little sheet I wrote it on only last month....but I can't remember where I put it again.........

[OldTackle]

Does not matter for me Nobby, Sir. I will keep the original section to have the option to get it back to original condition. But I didn't want to think about the section every time I have a ground tangle or cast a bit further out. That's why I intend to use the replacement of Chapman's. Was quite at a good rate.

[Santiago]

With respect to a Wizard's butt section having wooden dowel in the bottom half of the handle, is this typically found in just Wizards or would one expect to find this construction in other similar traditional avons such as the Avocet or Super Avon kit rods?

[Nobby]

Well definitely not the Super Avon kit rod as I've just chopped one up ( long, sad story that started with a snapping sound..... ). I don't know about the other rods in this style, but the news that the Wizard had a dowel handle was a surprise to me!

[Santiago]

Very interesting, my mystery traditional avon with the same taper as an Avocet but with an unusual 18" handle (sadly no photo of the old handle), has a dowel rod at the bottom of the handle. When I replaced the cork I didn't, however, measure the length of dowel but it was at least 12" or more. The rod now has a 26" handle and has a good feel to it. This is the rod I called The Super Senior Wizocet, as a skit on this style of rod.

Am I correct in saying the Avocet has almost exactly the same taper as a Wizard?