What exactly is laying on...

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Stathamender
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Re: What exactly is laying on...

Post by Stathamender »

Santiago wrote:According to The Marshall Cavendish Fisherman's Handbook :

Laying-on. 'A method of freshwater fishing in which split shot are set a short distance above the hook and are allowed to lie on the bottom with the bait. A fish taking the bait can lift it without feeling the weight of the shot but the effect on the float is very marked. There are many variations on this style. '

I suspect if with any float set up, that if some shot is laying on the bottom then one might call it Laying-on (hence the name) . But if just the bait is on the bottom then I'm not sure what one would call it, but I wouldn't describe it as laying-on because when a fish takes the bait it may well feel the weight of the above shot!

A method best used to beat surface drift on still waters, or in flow when one doesn't want to leger but wants to present a still bait on the bottom.
Sounds like lift method to me.
Iain

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I suspect it could be “love”, despite its drawbacks in the rhyming department.
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Olly
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Re: What exactly is laying on...

Post by Olly »

The float will never 'lift' in running water - exclusively where I have used the 'laying on' method - or is it stret-pegging dependent upon where my shot are?
My version below-
"A method best used in flow when one doesn't want to leger but wants to present a bait on the bottom under the rod tip"

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Rod
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Re: What exactly is laying on...

Post by Rod »

I was confused about this, but my boy gave me some Wilson DVD's, and in one he, as he puts it, "lays on" for carp in a river, using just a length of peacock quill fixed with rubber bands, and a swan shot for weight, he then cast it down stream, winding back till all was under tension, with the float flat, then when he got a bite the quill either shot off or stood up? You can imagine what happened he caught the biggest carp in the river? But, a friend of mine used to run a charter out of Weymouth, and was booked by Wilsons production company, for a whole week, John turned up with seven sets of exactly the same clothing, in case they never caught the right fish on day one or two, luckily for my mate they got everything on day one, so he was free to rebook anyone , even though they had paid for the week, the moral here is, don't believe all what you see on the TV. :Chuckle:
An old man, who's only pleasure left in life, is sitting by some water, fiddling with his maggots?

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Olly
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Re: What exactly is laying on...

Post by Olly »

The clothing thing is standard procedure when filming or doing a photoshoot! If you don't catch one day - you may catch the next - but can edited to 1 days fishing. Or spread it out to 4 days if everything was caught on the first day - etc!

Unless it rain or the sun shines - cannot account for the weather in the UK!

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Mitchell324
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Re: What exactly is laying on...

Post by Mitchell324 »

So laying on can be used in running water. However it must be used down stream from the rod tip as by casting cross the current will cause the float to be down stream of the weight, any take will not be seen as the float will just move down with the current.

So the set up should be; all the weight about 8" form the hook, a float attached top and bottom and set by about twice the depth of the swim. cast to your spot and slowly pay out line till the float lies flat and steady in the current. When a fish takes, and moves off downstream the float goes under if it moves upstream it'll slide off to the side as it tries to readjust to the new stetting either way strike.

This is the method I was taught by the old boys of the angling club in the early 1970's and these guys had been using it for years before that.
It works and is a good method when fishing in winter or during floods.
I'm going, I'm going, where the water tastes like wine, gonna jump in the river and stay drunk all the time.
(Allan Wilson-Canned Heat- "GOING UP THE COUNTRY")

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Santiago
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Re: What exactly is laying on...

Post by Santiago »

The distance between float and hook doesn't need to be twice the depth. If it were the case then it would be a very tricky method to use in many river swims. About 2'over depth is plenty if one uses the right sized float. And this method is best used close in with the float just several feet down stream from the rod tip with the line coming off the tip being parallel to the bank to the float, otherwise the current will drag the float to this position anyway, with the possibility of snagging bottom. When I ' lay on' I don't so much as cast the float but use a slow underarm cast so that the float will settle in the desired position fairly quickly. And the float doesn't need to be flat, when I do it I set it cocked. However, there's apparently many variations of this method, some involve bulking the shot and some spreading it out so over 2' of line is tight to the bottom. Regardless, it's great for bream and roach when they're not interested in a moving bait.
"....he felt the gentle touch on the line and he was happy"

Hemingway

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Mitchell324
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Re: What exactly is laying on...

Post by Mitchell324 »

Santiago wrote:The distance between float and hook doesn't need to be twice the depth. If it were the case then it would be a very tricky method to use in many river swims. About 2'over depth is plenty if one uses the right sized float. And this method is best used close in with the float just several feet down stream from the rod tip with the line coming off the tip being parallel to the bank to the float, otherwise the current will drag the float to this position anyway, with the possibility of snagging bottom. When I ' lay on' I don't so much as cast the float but use a slow underarm cast so that the float will settle in the desired position fairly quickly. And the float doesn't need to be flat, when I do it I set it cocked. However, there's apparently many variations of this method, some involve bulking the shot and some spreading it out so over 2' of line is tight to the bottom. Regardless, it's great for bream and roach when they're not interested in a moving bait.
On the fast deep rivers of the North 2" over depth will see the float dragged under this isn't float fishing it's using the float as a bite indicator while ledgering.
I'm going, I'm going, where the water tastes like wine, gonna jump in the river and stay drunk all the time.
(Allan Wilson-Canned Heat- "GOING UP THE COUNTRY")

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Santiago
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Re: What exactly is laying on...

Post by Santiago »

I fish the Thames so 2' over depth is fine in the more sluggish sections. I suppose with laying on it's very hard to generalise without first describing the swim that ones particular variation works well in. I also position the float upstream of the weight.
"....he felt the gentle touch on the line and he was happy"

Hemingway

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Olly
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Re: What exactly is laying on...

Post by Olly »

You can use this method on any river! The size of the float and the weight it carries needs to be proportionate to the rate of knots of the river.
It should be a float, a weight(or weights) and a baited hook. If the weight is sliding on the line it could be called "float ledgering" - if the weight is fixed to the line - it could be called "laying on with a float". As said above the line is at right angles to the rod and downstream (or upstream when the tide comes in). I have loved the method,which accounted for loads of fish, since my youth fishing the tidal Thames in flood in the winter and during high tides throughout the season, mostly roach & bream.
I adapted it as a very reliable way to catch barbel at Staines and Sunbury using an isotope to see the float at night. And for catching roach in Hants. Avon slacks in the autumn/winter.

Regarding using how much shot depends upon how fast the current is, but 'laying on' and 'float ledgering' require shot on the line to prevent a downstream bow and ensuring the line is as straight as can be between rod tip and bait. A small piece of peacock or a large piece make little difference providing it acts as an indicator of a bite. It could be called quiver tipping using a float!

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Mitchell324
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Re: What exactly is laying on...

Post by Mitchell324 »

In the book,The Big Fish scene", John Wilson describes this method and has diagrams for it, in the chapter for winter Dace. Curiously he calls it "stret pegging" but I always thought stret pegging was a method of trotting the float set overdepth with the float down stream of the hook.
I've added this link to a youtube vid of Bernard Venables stret pegging for Roach. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYcFVc4lq7c
I'm going, I'm going, where the water tastes like wine, gonna jump in the river and stay drunk all the time.
(Allan Wilson-Canned Heat- "GOING UP THE COUNTRY")

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