Any comments/advice on this one please

[Greentura]

The ferule is wrong, looks like a modern japanese chromed one. It is nowhere near 3-4lb test, that's getting near Dennis Pye pike rod strength and no mk 4 is that powerful, 1 3/4 maybe 2lb tops. The cork handle looks wrong too, remade with the onion shape end to make it look like an older version, anodised reel bands and butt cap with new shape button, I put one of these on a rod which had 4" cut off the handle after extending it again with some duraloy and cork to make it look better, but it's not as nice as an original. I wouldn't want to pay more than £180 for it like that, which is what i sold my one for. Personally I don't like the S/U version, it feels compromised and poorly balanced against a standard 1 1/2lb test mk4 carp, and if you're going to spend that much on a mk4 I'd spend a little more and get a really good earlier one, or a nicer chapmans 550, but that's just my opinion

[Julian]

The ferule is wrong, looks like a modern japanese chromed one. It is nowhere near 3-4lb test, that's getting near Dennis Pye pike rod strength and no mk 4 is that powerful, 1 3/4 maybe 2lb tops. The cork handle looks wrong too, remade with the onion shape end to make it look like an older version, anodised reel bands and butt cap with new shape button, I put one of these on a rod which had 4" cut off the handle after extending it again with some duraloy and cork to make it look better, but it's not as nice as an original. I wouldn't want to pay more than £180 for it like that, which is what i sold my one for. Personally I don't like the S/U version, it feels compromised and poorly balanced against a standard 1 1/2lb test mk4 carp, and if you're going to spend that much on a mk4 I'd spend a little more and get a really good earlier one, or a nicer chapmans 550, but that's just my opinion

Thanks Greentura - given your comments and others I think I will wait for a better one to come up.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there may be one at the next Mullocks auction.

However I will still be requiring a stepped up MKIV (I already have a Scottie MKIV) and I do want a good cane rod, no longer than 10ft with a test curve between 2 to 2.5 lbs - in very good condition for a maximum of £350, so I don't know of any other rod that would meet those requirements.

[Greentura]

The only rod I can recommend that fits the bill, as it did for me, is the Chapmans Quinette mk8. A 10' 2lb test carp rod. There is more power in the butt than any mk4 and it has a nicer action, I have a pair, which was hard to find as there were only about 50 made according top John Chapman. I spoke to him Thursday about the Mk8 and a Mk7 (3 piece 11'4" 1lb test rung as a float rod) i have bought in unused condition as well as seeing if they could make a pair of 1 1/4lb test 11' two piece Quinete blanks and supply bags for some of their rods I have restored, 500, 550, Hunter 12', Hunter 14' and 2 X FJT roach. If anyone is wondering yes they can on both counts, the bags are £23.50+vat and p&p and I'm waiting for the price on the blanks, but i think i will need to save quite a bit for them

[Harry H]

Cant't say it would be for me at that price but there is a B James Peter Tombelson rod on here http://www.inthenetuk.com/pages/VintageRods_BJames.asp with black button & rod fittings which was made for the 1959 boat show which would possibly fit with the age of onion handled mk4

[PershoreHarrier]

Julian - I think I may have told you that I have a MkIV SU (not for sale I'm afraid) and certainly the female ferrule is totally different to that shown on the photos here as are the reel fittings and butt cap. Mine I think is a fairly late one and now i have a digital camera I will try and put some photos up in the near future.

However, if you are planning the Old Estate Lake event this year and you can find a space for me I will bring the SU along and you can have a go with it for the day if you would like that.

I have been using it with a Mitchell 300 and 12lb bs line by the way for the monster Barbel in the Avon at Stratford but we have yet to have a meeting although I remain confident.

I bought my SU a couple of years ago for a little bit more than £350 from a dealer but it was in excellent condition and ready to use so putting a top price of £350 for one should not see you disappointed. I waited a long time to find mine so when this one turned up I went for it.

[Julian]

Julian - I think I may have told you that I have a MkIV SU (not for sale I'm afraid) and certainly the female ferrule is totally different to that shown on the photos here as are the reel fittings and butt cap. Mine I think is a fairly late one and now i have a digital camera I will try and put some photos up in the near future.

However, if you are planning the Old Estate Lake event this year and you can find a space for me I will bring the SU along and you can have a go with it for the day if you would like that.

I have been using it with a Mitchell 300 and 12lb bs line by the way for the monster Barbel in the Avon at Stratford but we have yet to have a meeting although I remain confident.

I bought my SU a couple of years ago for a little bit more than £350 from a dealer but it was in excellent condition and ready to use so putting a top price of £350 for one should not see you disappointed. I waited a long time to find mine so when this one turned up I went for it.

Thanks for all this info/advice PH ( and to everyone else who has commented)
I do indeed hope to arrange one (or more) TFF days out at the Old Estate Lake this summer ( to which of course you will be welcome) - and hopefully a day at the Mill Pool and maybe a day at The Old Village Club Pool ( see my journals section for lots of photos of these pools).
However organising those will depend on a couple of on-going health problems I have being 'sorted' soon.

I won't be bidding on the rod currently on the bay, however a TFF member is hoping to sort me out with an ideal rod for my specific needs - which may or may not be a stepped-up MKIV.
Regardless of that I would be very pleased to take up your offer of having a go with yours in the summer at the lake.

What do you believe the test-curve to be on your one?

[PershoreHarrier]

I have a James MkIV Carp rod which I believe is rated as having a 1.5lb tc and when I put the SU up against it and look at the cross-sectional area of the canes I would reckon the SU must be in the order of 2.5lb tc. However, I am no scientist, have no rod making ability, have no rod design ability or any other relevant expertise to be precise or even close to any knowledge on the matter whatsoever other than I use the rods.

I was told that late James rods used inferior cane and the late standard MkIV carp rod was poor and that the SU was to make up for that deficiency. Frankly I don't believe that. My MkIV Carp rod is a late one ( I bought it new in 1970 when they could not give them away) and I am by no means a skillful angler even after years of practice but I have had some very decent carp on it running to low 20s in very tight swims on a pool which was stocked, it is rumoured, with small carp from Redmire in the mid to late 1950s and my word do they go. Hence when I was fishing there in the 1980s there were plenty between 12lb and 30lb and I was fortunate enough to catch quite a few before many of them were stolen and sold to local day ticket fisheries.

[Wallys-Cast]

Hi Julian,
I have just tested the test curve of my S/U . I fastened the rod to the fence by its handle with the reel in the normal position, the line through the rings and attached to my scales and pulled it into a curve until the about 6 inches of the tip was at 90 degrees to the fence. Its hard to convince yourself when its at a full 90 degrees but the scales read between 4.5 and 5 lbs. so yes a very powerful rod.

My particular rod has a London address label and the onion shaped handle so not a really late one. (1957-1966) I believe.

I think most people assume because its a stepped up MK1V that it was intended for Carp but I believe they were actually made for casting large leads and heavy baits and aimed more at pike or light sea fishing..Like the Chapmans Dennis Pye rods..

As for the Chapmans Quinette MK8 rods, and this is just my opinion having owned a couple over the years. Although they are rated at 2lb tc, to be honest I found they were not as nice to use as a good early version MK1V. Test curve isn't everything, low down power when you need it and good fish playing capabilities are much more useful than an out and out beachcaster.
I also found they tend to take on a serious set in the tip if put under much pressure, maybe because of the extra stresses the cane strips have to go through to bend. If 5 strip rods were the way to go there would be a lot more of them. They were very expensive when first made, partly because they were a novelty and also because they were probably hand planed but lets face it they would take no more making than a six strip rod once the milling machines were set up with cutters at 72 degrees rather than the standard 60..

My preference would be, if you want a rod with a little bit more power than a MK1V and don't mind it being 6 inches shorter, the Hardy LRH No1 spinning rod is a very nice rod indeed with a lovely action and will handle most carp in snaggy situations..Not the LRH No2 which is a far more powerful rod and the LRH No3 is just an out and out monster rod more at home on the pier.

Hope this helps in your quest to find a suitable rod for your needs..

Wal.

[Julian]

Thanks Wal and PH.
So the test curve range of stepped-up cane MKIV's is rather unusual - because certainly new ones that are still made
and some older ones are stated as having have a test curve of 2lb or thereabouts, but obviously others do have a test-curve of 3, 4 or even 5lbs.

[JerryC]

The S/U was developed from late 1957/early 1958 with a t/c of approximately 2lb - therefore an early example might well have still had an 'onion' handle . The black butt cap was often used for rods displayed at exhibitions.