The Traditional Fisherman's Forum

The crust directly beneath the rod tip with no line in the water does work well at times. With nothing else on the line to offer resistance, and the close range, any hooked carp go off at full tilt and one has to be prepared for that.

One snag is getting the right compromise between being out of sight of the fish, and still being able to see the takes and indeed the approach routes to the bait - in order to react in time to any ducks etc that may try to sneak up under the bank. It's a method that demands great concentration, but rewards with considerable excitement. Provided there is cover behind the angler (no silhouetting against the skyline) and one keeps absolutely still, I've found that being in full view of the fish does not necessarily put them off, if one dresses drably. Better though is to be behind a fringe of tall weeds that one can still see through.

A smaller drawback I've been finding with this method is that when the bait comes off the hook and one has to retrieve, the hook tends to fly up to the rod tip as there is not enough weight to combat this and draw line through the rod rings. The only solution I've found is to slowly pass the rod back hand over hand until one can reach the tip ring and get the hook. Not ideal if there are feeding fish in the area that might be spooked by movement. Anybody got a better idea?

First things first, the Zig Rig is named after a Lake! The lake i s Lake Zyg, slightly different spelling. Walker used what was the perfect presentation, there was no line for the fish to feel whether it swam round the bait on the surface or swan underneath the bait. You need good cover in front of you and the ability to sit perfectly still. Worked all those years ago and still does!

Snape wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:33 am

MGs wrote:SB

I came across a similar problem at about the same time. I went the other way and used a small bomb to anchor the crust (only 2' of water) The fish still approached it as there was no line on the surface.

Does that make it a zig rig?
I was surprised that the line from the lead up to the crust didn't spook the fish but someone suggested that vertical line is less spooky as fish see vertival lines (eg weed) whereas line at an angle through the water is unnatural.

Anchored crust (on the surface as opposed to on the bottom) was one of the most successful of all methods back in the sixties and early seventies and was commonplace on most of the South East carp waters, Brooklands, Horton Kirby, Cutt Mill etc. It was known as the Braddock Rig after Archie Braddock who I believe used it at Mapperly. It worked day or night both summer and autumn and the vertical line didn't seem to bother them, they seemed far more spooked by free lined surface crust. I dread to think how many carp I caught using the Braddock Rig, I often wonder why I don't try it today. One of the beauties of the Rig was you could pull it down if a duck or coot came along and sometimes fishing the crust a few inches below the surface worked better. The term "zig Rig" came along many years later, dream't up by Zenon Bonjko when he fished it (after seeing others using the method) at Darenth.
Back in day we would often bake our own unleavened bread to a Jim Gibbinson recipe which was a lot tougher than normal bread crust plus you could add Parmesan cheese to it to make it a bit different. Later we used Fred Wiltons HP floater cake which was even tougher and more buoyant and of course various flavours or smells could be added.
I think it was Walker who first wrote about "margin fished crust" he and Pete Thomas used it to great effect at Bearton Pond, there is an amazing flashlight shot of a carp taking a crust which is almost on the bank in one of Walkers books, Still Water Angling I think. Whether it would work today, probably would if the water (and the angler) was quiet enough ?

Thanks for relighting this thread JPC.
I may try anchored crust this summer as the carp where I fish was very wary of any line on the surface.

Snape wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:16 pm I recall Dick Walker devising a night time margin fishing technique with floating crust thrown into the margin and a piece with a hook in it being lowered in under the rod tip so no line touched the water.
Presumably it is fished with a centrepin reel on the the ratchet so the fish can run with the bait but it won't drift off.
Does this work? Has anyone tried it?

Wasn't he trying to avoid the Rudd which would continuously take his crust offering - so only lowering his crust bait when a Carp moved into his swim? Tricky at night I would guess lowering the bait exactly to the surface but it might also work with a fixed spool reel with open bale arm and paper indicator between the reel and the butt ring.

I used to fish at night - with freelined bread flake or luncheon meat and a paper indicator between butt ring and open bale arm to the reel. When that paper moved sometimes slowly and other times like a rocket goodness knows what my heart rate must have been.

Snape wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:05 pm Thanks for relighting this thread JPC.
I may try anchored crust this summer as the carp where I fish was very wary of any line on the surface.

I think I might try it again too Mr Snape, I do fish a water where mixers account for a lot of fish. Just got to find that Gibbinson bread recipe!

I have just had a look in a book I have called carp fishing by Tony Whieldon and found this an article I thought I had seen before. I hope this is the Jim Gibbinson item you are after JPC.

Thanks Reedling, I have that book. The recipe I referred to by Jim is for unleavened bread and is in "The Anglers Year" vol 2 edited by Peter Wheat (I just had a look after posting) however the the one posted by you is based on an original recipe by Fred Wilton and is probably a better bait, certainly more buoyant and slightly tougher, thanks.

When catching mullet, who are very cautious, I use a large piece of crust as a 'float' and piece of flake on the hook - 2-3 in underneath.

JPC - just checked some of Jim's books - in Big-Water Carp he uses the above method, but just uses 10 oz of an 'HNV' mix, rather than make the mix from the individual ingredients.

Must admit, if I'm floater fishing I usually just use dog biscuits - Baker's Meaty Bites, though I haven't used them for a few years and I have a feeling I read somewhere that they have been 'reformulated' or even withdrawn.