The Traditional Fisherman's Forum

The problem is that the bolt-rig was used long before it was designed - in the days when gimp was used for ledgering, to protect the line from abrasion by the running lead (gimp was a metal-wound silk line), the lead was stopped from running off the gimp by a shot at each side - a Victorian bolt-rig.
Early in the evolution of the block-end feeder on the lower Thames in the early 1960s by LAA matchmen, it was common to stop the feeder with a shot six inches above it, to foil the dace that were so difficult to hit.
The "Designed" bolt-rig, as I understand it, came about about a decade later because the boilie had just been invented; a rock-hard bait , to thwart small fish, which a carp would have to take back to its throat-teeth to crush.To optimise hooking, and minimise deep hooking, the long hair rig was invented, so the hook would be near the lips when the bait was in the teeth. Because confident carp might scarcely be moving , yet required prompt hooking to avoid damage to the fish or missing the bite altogether, the bolt rig was developed - all for "nobler" reasons than the pre-existing self-hooking rigs.
There is also a problem - if one worries about such things - of the self-hooking powers of "running" leads in running waters (probably effectively fixed leads), paternoster rigs and large floats.
I prefer to strike the bite, but if a fish hooks itself against the check of my centre-pin, am I to say it doesn't count?

Vole wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:54 pm The problem is that the bolt-rig was used long before it was designed - in the days when gimp was used for ledgering, to protect the line from abrasion by the running lead (gimp was a metal-wound silk line), the lead was stopped from running off the gimp by a shot at each side - a Victorian bolt-rig.
Early in the evolution of the block-end feeder on the lower Thames in the early 1960s by LAA matchmen, it was common to stop the feeder with a shot six inches above it, to foil the dace that were so difficult to hit.
The "Designed" bolt-rig, as I understand it, came about about a decade later because the boilie had just been invented; a rock-hard bait , to thwart small fish, which a carp would have to take back to its throat-teeth to crush.To optimise hooking, and minimise deep hooking, the long hair rig was invented, so the hook would be near the lips when the bait was in the teeth. Because confident carp might scarcely be moving , yet required prompt hooking to avoid damage to the fish or missing the bite altogether, the bolt rig was developed - all for "nobler" reasons than the pre-existing self-hooking rigs.
There is also a problem - if one worries about such things - of the self-hooking powers of "running" leads in running waters (probably effectively fixed leads), paternoster rigs and large floats.
I prefer to strike the bite, but if a fish hooks itself against the check of my centre-pin, am I to say it doesn't count?

Hi Vole,
I have no issues about a fish hooking itself against the check of your center pin, only with setting out to intentionally fish a self hooking rig.
Best regards
Mem

Jardine wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:15 pm I have no issues about a fish hooking itself against the check of your center pin, only with setting out to intentionally fish a self hooking rig.
Best regards
Mem

I entirely agree with you Mem.

Another one in total agreement

John

And me, well put.

Yes, fully agree.
Fish will clearly hook themselves on occasions but it is the intention which makes the difference.

Back to the original theme of the thread and Fennel.
I arrived home from work today and found a distinctive envelope on the side which contained a lovely handwritten letter regarding Redmire, written in Redmire pool ink...
Thank you Fennel

Mark wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:30 pm

Jardine wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:15 pm I have no issues about a fish hooking itself against the check of your center pin, only with setting out to intentionally fish a self hooking rig.
Best regards
Mem

I entirely agree with you Mem.

yep ^this^

Jardine - In my defence, I did say 'arguably' but his rig was perhaps the beginning of a trend to hit the fish in the bottom lip.

With regard to self hooking rigs. I have no real problem with them for the reason already mentioned. If baiting is heavy or concentrated, the feeding fish do not move far and deep hooking is a possibility. A rig that hooks the fish within inches of it picking up the bait is a logical answer to an angling problem. Add to this that many carp, especially on pressured waters, can detect a rig and eject the bait in less time that it takes to say it.

Again, fishing at range when line is bowed or running through weed etc, you have little possibility of detecting a take in time to hit it. There are many reasons to get the fish to self hook and I just see it as a sensible method and far superior to blanking for season after season.

What I will add is that I know how to fish close in and to hook the fish myself. The vast majority of carp anglers only know the self hook approach and will use it regardless. But that opens another can of worms about the indoctrination of the masses.

On rivers - especially fast ones such as the Wye - self hooking is a fact of life. The fish lifts the bait and lead then feels it moving in the current - result voom! let's get out of here and your rod is teetering on the rest or flying after the running fish. I have fished with light, balanced running rigs many times only to have a screaming run. To try to make the fish give a bite you can strike at..... well, is it worth it?

Fishing, to me, is defined by the simple fact that the angler purposefully intends and expects to have to set the hook, anything else is trapping. Any end tackle designed to self-hook the fish without any action on the angler's part, once the bait has been placed, is a snare.

That sometimes the fish picks up a bait and runs off with it as such a pace or distance and in doing so hooks itself is fair game, since that was not the anglers intention or the way his, or her, tackle was arranged.

I'm sorry to write but all this 'modern carp fishing' is not fishing at all as I understand it but trapping pure and simple and that has less attraction to me than watching my lawn grow.