Test Curves.

[Mr B]

Afternoon Gents, (After reading "A Battle Royal"
I have a few Marco Split cane rods and wondered if there specifications were catalogued as in rod lengths and test curves?
I know they made the same model rods in different lengths and sometimes with a extra shorter tip section.
I have a
Marco Arun 12 ft ( the sections)
Marko Aran 10 ft 6 inch's with a shorter tip that makes a more powerful rod at 9ft 6 inch's
And a 12 ft Marco Medway de Luxe,( wrong spelling?) hollow built.
I don't really fancy getting out my spring balance and attempting to get the test curve on each rod, I might end up snapping one or putting in a nasty set.
I'm guessing...
The Marco Arun 12ft... 1lbs?
The 10 ft Aran 1 1/2 lbs?
The 9 1/2ft Aran.. 1, 3/4 lbs... pushing 2lbs?
The 12 ft Medway 3/4 lbs/ pushing 1lbs?
I have read a fair amount on "Our Forum" about Marco rods but cant find anything on test curves?
I know that sometimes the same Model will often have different feral sizes as well.
It could well be the rod builder built the rod using what materials he had and said... yes, that will do, a Medway, mm, this one an Arun, yes, ok, this one a Test etc..
Interested in your views gents.
Mr B

[Olly]

I am not 100% sure but there was little about T/Cs prior to Walker and the rods he designed. I think casting weight and line strength were used more than test curves.

It became more used when fibreglass rods were made - every rod on the same mandrel produced the same rod - time after time. Alter the mandrel - and/or the number/thickness of the fibreglass wraps to increase/decrease its power = different rod.

To test what you think is 'comfortable' for your rod test it with ledger weights - I use an ounce or two ounce to see how it bends - not to try & cast it!! I put the rod on a table - in the garden usually - and thread a line thru the rings then suspend the appropriate weight starting with 1/2 oz. By moving the rod with more of its length off the table you will see how the rod reacts. take great care with spliced tip float rods - any spliced rod.

Dont try to hang a 1/2lb weight or a bag of sugar/flour - tempting fate!

[JAA]

What Olly says. The t/c is when the tip is at right angles to the butt, but with the force applied at right angles to the un-bent rod. Don't pull down from the tip with the rod vertical, it's a good way to snap the tip off.

The idea I think was to provide a range of line strengths that at the lower b/s meant that the rod could still absorb shock and protect the line and at the higher b/s the line would break before the rod. More-or-less.

It's a decent rough guide, but I've often felt that the vertical distance from the tip to the butt when at it's test curve would have been a useful addition, that is 'how much of the rod is meaningfully bent to reach the t/c?'

A ten foot rod with a through action will have the same t/c and more-or-less the same shock absorbing properties if you give it a 2ft broom-handle extension.

The same ten feet with a tip action could have the same t/c but be a worse shock absorber than a through action...

Just my guess, but I'd suggest the comparative lightness and lower inertia of a hollow 'non-cane' rod and such materials' higher tensile strengths might mean you can get away with larger range of b/s.

[Kev D]

I think test curve measurements are supposed to take into account the overall curve of the rod not just the tip. Supporting the body of the rod on a table and hanging weights on the tip? Well surely there lies a recipe not only for an inaccurate result but also for disaster!
Supporting the butt parallel with the ground and allowing the rest of the rod free movement seems to be the right way.
Once the rod is arched to a point that the tip is forming a right angle with the butt the test curve has been reached.
To use an archery term the rod is "stacked-up" at a natural maximum limit . Getting anywhere near that point with an elderly wooden bow ,and l guess an old rod , is pushing your luck.
With a tip action rod the bend in the lower sections might be insignificant and some rods come with interchangeable tips rated for different T/Cs which might sort of buck the formula a bit. Or probably not if you think about it ...
Ideal line strength is theoretically five times the test curve to allow the line to give way rather than have the rod break if the test curve is exceeded .
So a 1lb T/C rod is theoretically best suited to 5lb bs line . In practice there is plenty of leeway up or down if the Angler is sympathetic to his tackle .
Edit. In the interests of the original poster l have just subjected my 12ft Marco Arun to hideous torture .
With 6lb line on the reel and a bemused Grandchild watching the dial on a set of Avons we came up with a test curve of 1lb.
I can thankfully report that the rod is still 12feet long!

Wasn't it Mole Patrol who tested the T/C of his Marco Silver Monarch by lifting a dustbin?

[Wallys-Cast]

I tested a s/u MKIV once and got a reading of 4.5 lbs. The handle was fixed yo two brackets on the fence then a line fixed at the butt end and run through the rings as per normal. Then a set of scales used to pull the line until a short length of the tip section was vertical to the ground. It actually took nearly 7lbs to create a full quadrant.
I dont think tc gives a true picture of a rod. An acceptable line strength as used by Hardys and Sharpes on their spinning rods gives a much better idea of what a rod can handle.
By the way has anyone ever tried breaking line with a rod. It almost impossible to break 5lb line. Tie your line to a fence or tree then walk backwards with rod held upright as if trying to pull the tree over, the line just will not break unless you drop the tip and pull direct on the line.

Wal.

[Mr B]

Some very interesting comments there Gents,
I have run some tests on some hollow glass sea fishing rods in the past but never on split cane.
I have tried the ... " getting your mate to hold the rod against the wall technique"
Pulling it around to 90% with a spring balance and line.
After reading Kev D's comment....

"I have just subjected my 12ft Marco Arun to hideous torture " .. (I bet your granddaughter found it very interesting, my grandson would, hoping for a snap!) I think I could be not far out, ( quote from my original post)

"I'm guessing...
The Marco Arun 12ft... 1lbs?
The 10 ft Aran 1 1/2 lbs?
The 9 1/2ft Aran.. 1, 3/4 lbs... pushing 2lbs?
The 12 ft Medway 3/4 lbs/ pushing 1lbs?

As for the line strengths..
I think there are a lot of variables there.
Boat fishing sea rods are rated in line class and I understand that but it still had its flaws.
Going back to split cane.
Correct me if I am wrong.
A 12lbs breaking strain line on a MK1V carp rod would take some breaking, rod alone, the rod would break first if the fish wasn't played properly, the rod is rated 1:1/2 lbs.
(Wal posted a few seconds before me I think, just seen it)
Interesting stuff,.,
Ooops my dinners done, late today.
TBC no doubt....
Mr B

[Dave Burr]

Wal makes an excellent point about line refusing to break when a rod is bent progressively. Sudden snatches may break it as will the slightest touch of something solid against the line but, a well-balanced outfit and no snags will allow anybody to tire virtually any fish. Of course, once the fish is beaten and lying doggo under your feet, will your rod lift it off the bottom?

Test curves and cane are pretty much irrelevant. Take a Harvey Torbett rod, below the last three feet or so, it becomes a sturdy beast but, the tip is light and great for float fishing. So, would you cast a 2oz lead on it and expect the tip to remain attached? No, of course not, you cannot abuse a cane rod tip unless you are at the broom handle level.

[Cat]

Mr B, may we add in the Marco Standard Carp at around 1/4lb (maybe a bit less) please! Regards Cat

[Wallys-Cast]

Wal makes an excellent point about line refusing to break when a rod is bent progressively. Sudden snatches may break it as will the slightest touch of something solid against the line but, a well-balanced outfit and no snags will allow anybody to tire virtually any fish. Of course, once the fish is beaten and lying doggo under your feet, will your rod lift it off the bottom?

Test curves and cane are pretty much irrelevant. Take a Harvey Torbett rod, below the last three feet or so, it becomes a sturdy beast but, the tip is light and great for float fishing. So, would you cast a 2oz lead on it and expect the tip to remain attached? No, of course not, you cannot abuse a cane rod tip unless you are at the broom handle level.

Dave, wasn't it Harvey Torbett himself who tried to stop a swimmer with a cane rod. I cant remember the outcome or where the hook was attached for that matter.

wal.

[Jeremy Croxall]

Wal makes an excellent point about line refusing to break when a rod is bent progressively. Sudden snatches may break it as will the slightest touch of something solid against the line but, a well-balanced outfit and no snags will allow anybody to tire virtually any fish. Of course, once the fish is beaten and lying doggo under your feet, will your rod lift it off the bottom?

Test curves and cane are pretty much irrelevant. Take a Harvey Torbett rod, below the last three feet or so, it becomes a sturdy beast but, the tip is light and great for float fishing. So, would you cast a 2oz lead on it and expect the tip to remain attached? No, of course not, you cannot abuse a cane rod tip unless you are at the broom handle level.

Dave, wasn't it Harvey Torbett himself who tried to stop a swimmer with a cane rod. I cant remember the outcome or where the hook was attached for that matter.

wal.

I think Dave's tried it with Canoeists, Wal