Ambidex Bale Arm Tuning.

[Mr B]

Good evening gents

I took delivery of a basket case Ambidex MK 6 earlier this week for some parts.
I like the folding handle and have been using a blue one from the MK 6 on the my No 2 FP.. so I swapped that for the gold one on the Basket case Reel. (Its storing the FP handle) and it works a treat.
I also exchanged the bail spring (Blue Mk6) because the basket case bale arm opened and closed with a nice snap.. the blue one was a bit sluggish and needed a "Tune Up"
Cutting it short, the spring went in Ok after a few fiddling attempts and the bale arm put back.
Still sluggish.. I "slightly" I loosened it ( big screw) and it snapped back nicely.
I thought I would try it again but this time I took the bale arm from the spare reel.
Cleaning it first and then put in on... again.. sluggish when tightened but snappy when just a tad looser.
The other reels are done up tight and the bale arm returns as it should.
Any thoughts gents???
Mr B.

[Cat]

Hi, is the spring definitely on the right way round, as in, is it under tension? I've faffed around before with springs previously in ensuring they're fitted correctly, but also seem to remember Ambidex spring fitting is a bit of a delicate balance in respect on the correct screw tension. Regards Cat

[Watermole+]

Setting up the bale arm.

This is how I set up the bale arm return / return spring assembly on Ambidex / Duco reels with F.P. or full bale arms.
You don’t have to do it this way and there might be a quicker way, but this is how to get it right..

1. Start by removing the line drum so that you can see the back of the flyer ( or ‘rotor’).
2. Remove the little trip screw situated on the ‘bend’ of the angled trip arm. If you ‘jiggle’ the bale assembly, the light ‘horseshoe’ spring will push the end of the trip arm through the slot in the flyer.
3. Now that there is no pressure on it, the trip arm and little spring may be unscrewed and drawn clear through the slot.
The point of removing this is so that there is no hindrance or resistance on the bale assembly. This will also allow the assembly to be completely relaxed and it should fall freely behind the flyer.
4. Next, remove the screw and small captive plate that holds the opposite side of the bale to the ‘spring’ side (with the trip cam) to the flyer.
5. It is not strictly necessary, but I always now remove the other big screw and spring, so the the bale arm may be completely separated and set aside.

6. Thoroughly clean all parts, not forgetting the circular well in the flyer casting where the spring locates.

This is where you begin to set it up.

7. Loosely relocate the big screw ONLY through the bale arm and gently screw up the bale arm. Do not fit the spring yet.
8. This the important bit.
Check the position of the little wire loop or pivot point on the other side of the ‘spring’ side. This should be EXACTLY centred over the screw hole ! If it isn’t, leave it for now.
9. Now manually move the bale arm over and check again where the end of the wire loop is. It SHOULD be in the same place.
If it isn’t, you have to “tweak” the wire so that the wire loop is hovering just clear of the screw hole and centred above it, when the bale arm is in both the ‘open’ and ‘closed’ positions.

If it isn’t, it will be causing a biased drag on the big screw end, the main pivot point, and that is why your bale arm does not close cleanly!

It can be a little exasperating, but the object of the whole exercise is to set the bale arm angle and wire shape so that with the main screw done up properly ( but still minus the spring) the other end stays more-or-less centred about its screw hole and only just above it!

When you are happy with this, start re-assembling the reel by fitting the spring end into the little hole inside the well ( not forgetting to add a little grease) and refit the bale arm plus large screw.
Check that it pivots freely. If it does, refit the little plate + screw on the other end and check again.
Notice how easy it is to do with the trip arm not there!
Check again for free movement. NEVER BE CONTENT IF IT IS NOT RIGHT!

Now locate the trip arm through the slot..You will need to wiggle the bale arm about to do this and then locate the little horseshoe spring and securing screw, adding a dab of grease and checking again that it moves freely.

The final step is to push the end of the trip arm through the flyer slot so that the bale arm “cocks” in the ‘closed’ position under the spring load and refit the trip screw.

The bale arm will now function perfectly as the maker’s intended it to.

wm+

[Mr B]

Setting up the bale arm.

This is how I set up the bale arm return / return spring assembly on Ambidex / Duco reels with F.P. or full bale arms.
You don’t have to do it this way and there might be a quicker way, but this is how to get it right..

1. Start by removing the line drum so that you can see the back of the flyer ( or ‘rotor’).
2. Remove the little trip screw situated on the ‘bend’ of the angled trip arm. If you ‘jiggle’ the bale assembly, the light ‘horseshoe’ spring will push the end of the trip arm through the slot in the flyer.
3. Now that there is no pressure on it, the trip arm and little spring may be unscrewed and drawn clear through the slot.
The point of removing this is so that there is no hindrance or resistance on the bale assembly. This will also allow the assembly to be completely relaxed and it should fall freely behind the flyer.
4. Next, remove the screw and small captive plate that holds the opposite side of the bale to the ‘spring’ side (with the trip cam) to the flyer.
5. It is not strictly necessary, but I always now remove the other big screw and spring, so the the bale arm may be completely separated and set aside.

6. Thoroughly clean all parts, not forgetting the circular well in the flyer casting where the spring locates.

This is where you begin to set it up.

7. Loosely relocate the big screw ONLY through the bale arm and gently screw up the bale arm. Do not fit the spring yet.
8. This the important bit.
Check the position of the little wire loop or pivot point on the other side of the ‘spring’ side. This should be EXACTLY centred over the screw hole ! If it isn’t, leave it for now.
9. Now manually move the bale arm over and check again where the end of the wire loop is. It SHOULD be in the same place.
If it isn’t, you have to “tweak” the wire so that the wire loop is hovering just clear of the screw hole and centred above it, when the bale arm is in both the ‘open’ and ‘closed’ positions.

If it isn’t, it will be causing a biased drag on the big screw end, the main pivot point, and that is why your bale arm does not close cleanly!

It can be a little exasperating, but the object of the whole exercise is to set the bale arm angle and wire shape so that with the main screw done up properly ( but still minus the spring) the other end stays more-or-less centred about its screw hole and only just above it!

When you are happy with this, start re-assembling the reel by fitting the spring end into the little hole inside the well ( not forgetting to add a little grease) and refit the bale arm plus large screw.
Check that it pivots freely. If it does, refit the little plate + screw on the other end and check again.
Notice how easy it is to do with the trip arm not there!
Check again for free movement. NEVER BE CONTENT IF IT IS NOT RIGHT!

Now locate the trip arm through the slot..You will need to wiggle the bale arm about to do this and then locate the little horseshoe spring and securing screw, adding a dab of grease and checking again that it moves freely.

The final step is to push the end of the trip arm through the flyer slot so that the bale arm “cocks” in the ‘closed’ position under the spring load and refit the trip screw.

The bale arm will now function perfectly as the maker’s intended it to.

wm+

Hi, is the spring definitely on the right way round, as in, is it under tension? I've faffed around before with springs previously in ensuring they're fitted correctly, but also seem to remember Ambidex spring fitting is a bit of a delicate balance in respect on the correct screw tension. Regards Cat

Thanks for your comments gents....sorry its a late reply been far to busy for my liking.
Watermole... I dont think that can be added to... Thanks for the in depth answer, top class and with experience to say the least.
I did make the mistake of not removing that first and it would have made things so much easier!
" If you ‘jiggle’ the bale assembly, the light ‘horseshoe’ spring will push the end of the trip arm through the slot in the flyer."
But...
I managed to get the bale arm back ok with the spring the right way and under tension. but it would have been easier on insight if I knew the right way from the start!
I have copied the instructions and will have another go next week... its not rocket science but a bit more tricky than I thought on the outset! Almost leave it to the professionals! ( or live with it and a little help from Mr H Robinson!)
Its always good to have a go yourself but sometimes know your limitations.
It seems to me these Ambidex reels are very nice to use, all British, but can be a little temperamental.... like all of us!!!
Mr B.

[Watermole+]

Thank you Mr.B.,

You are quite right to say that Ambidex reels are nice to use, -but I would like to very politely disagree that they are temperamental! There is no more a robust and reliable reel than one of these, but the trouble is, as Insurance companies used to describe motor-cycles in my youth “they are prone to maladjustment and very liable to derangement!”

There isn’t an Ambidex or Duco made that hasn’t been “stripped down “ at least a score of times since leaving the factory and all the carefully set up parts now hopelessly swapped over and mixed up!
The chief causes of winding issues are as a result of shim washers being lost.
The drive shaft being adjacent to the flyer, or ‘prop.’ shaft, it is important that there is centralisation of the helical gearing; in other words, that the pitch circle diameters, known as PCDs- of both the worm drive and helical drive wheel-the Tufnol one in later reels coincide exactly. This then gives optimum smoothness of transmission and silent running.

To achieve this various thickness shim washers are added to both the drive shaft (with the worm drive) to position this centrally below the Tufnol (can be cast alloy in the early ones or plastic in the final reels) wheel and thin shims added to either one side or both, of the crank shaft (with the handle).

Sometimes even the grooved thrust bearing washers each side of the bearing cage behind the flyer are swapped around with others which further complicates things!
This may result in the reel being reluctant to turn one way-or might run noisily with a ‘rushing’ sound when turned the other. A lot of the little shims were made from thin nylon or celluloid sheet of varying thicknesses and colours and oil would cause them to stick to the either the crankshaft sides or the faces of the ports in the body and side plate where the shaft passed through. When the reel was washed out with spirit or cleaner, these were frequently lost forever, the owner blissfully unaware of them even being there..

So as you see, this beautiful and robustly built workhorse didn’t stand a chance with owners having curious screwdrivers…
It was almost compulsory to remove the side plate…

However, this was a reel made with this in mind and it has quite a tolerance before it refuses to run.

I wrote down a procedure as a step-by-step for setting up the bale arm in my workbook based on repair experience.
This seems to be the chief part to cause problems as, should the reel be dropped, the bale arm is always the bent casualty and believe me, the setting up from scratch is quite simple to follow-and so I wish you every success!

The only point I neglected to mention is that, if when you temporarily fit the bale arm (without the spring) and the big screw locks it up tight so that the bale is solid, then either the screw or threaded hole is deformed. A temporary solution is to add a very tiny, thin washer on the end of the screw before you tighten it down, which will allow more freedom for the bale to rotate. You could also check to see that there are no serious burrs on the plate where the screw passes through, caused by an over-length tang on the spring end..?

Hope this is of some help..?

Kindest regards,

wm+

[Mr B]

Thank you Mr.B.,

You are quite right to say that Ambidex reels are nice to use, -but I would like to very politely disagree that they are temperamental! There is no more a robust and reliable reel than one of these, but the trouble is, as Insurance companies used to describe motor-cycles in my youth “they are prone to maladjustment and very liable to derangement!”

There isn’t an Ambidex or Duco made that hasn’t been “stripped down “ at least a score of times since leaving the factory and all the carefully set up parts now hopelessly swapped over and mixed up!
The chief causes of winding issues are as a result of shim washers being lost.
The drive shaft being adjacent to the flyer, or ‘prop.’ shaft, it is important that there is centralisation of the helical gearing; in other words, that the pitch circle diameters, known as PCDs- of both the worm drive and helical drive wheel-the Tufnol one in later reels coincide exactly. This then gives optimum smoothness of transmission and silent running.

To achieve this various thickness shim washers are added to both the drive shaft (with the worm drive) to position this centrally below the Tufnol (can be cast alloy in the early ones or plastic in the final reels) wheel and thin shims added to either one side or both, of the crank shaft (with the handle).

Sometimes even the grooved thrust bearing washers each side of the bearing cage behind the flyer are swapped around with others which further complicates things!
This may result in the reel being reluctant to turn one way-or might run noisily with a ‘rushing’ sound when turned the other. A lot of the little shims were made from thin nylon or celluloid sheet of varying thicknesses and colours and oil would cause them to stick to the either the crankshaft sides or the faces of the ports in the body and side plate where the shaft passed through. When the reel was washed out with spirit or cleaner, these were frequently lost forever, the owner blissfully unaware of them even being there..

So as you see, this beautiful and robustly built workhorse didn’t stand a chance with owners having curious screwdrivers…
It was almost compulsory to remove the side plate…

However, this was a reel made with this in mind and it has quite a tolerance before it refuses to run.

I wrote down a procedure as a step-by-step for setting up the bale arm in my workbook based on repair experience.
This seems to be the chief part to cause problems as, should the reel be dropped, the bale arm is always the bent casualty and believe me, the setting up from scratch is quite simple to follow-and so I wish you every success!

The only point I neglected to mention is that, if when you temporarily fit the bale arm (without the spring) and the big screw locks it up tight so that the bale is solid, then either the screw or threaded hole is deformed. A temporary solution is to add a very tiny, thin washer on the end of the screw before you tighten it down, which will allow more freedom for the bale to rotate. You could also check to see that there are no serious burrs on the plate where the screw passes through, caused by an over-length tang on the spring end..?

Hope this is of some help..?

Kindest regards,

wm+

Thanks for your comments again Watermole, all very interesting stuff indeed.

I suspect my reel, or reels I should say have, as you said....."So as you see, this beautiful and robustly built workhorse didn’t stand a chance with owners having curious screwdrivers…
It was almost compulsory to remove the side plate…

However, this was a reel made with this in mind and it has quite a tolerance before it refuses to run."
My 2 FP has that 'rushing' sound but I have just used it and thought perhaps it was just an age thing, but it goes ok and I enjoy using it.
I will have another try next week and will also look in my tin for a thin washer.. sounds a plan.

I looked at the price of reels when they were new and they were quite expensive, then looked up the corresponding price today, Well over £200.
So as always you get what you pay for, they must have been lovely 'straight out of the box' as must be by some of our TFF piscatorial partners in crime!

Thanks again,

Mr B

[Cat]

I think it was Nobby who said something like 'a good one is good, but getting a poor one good is difficult' in relation to an Ambidex.