Wallis Casting a Waggler

[Timothy Claypole]

Hello Gents,

I am a great lover of centrepins and often choose to fish with one (float fishing) even when other reels would be more suitable. One thing I have not tried and am considering experimenting with is Wallis casting a waggler float. I’m pretty good at Wallis casting top and bottom floats, but I’m not sure if the mechanics of wagglers would really permit a good cast, i.e. would it be inviting an almighty tangle?

So… do any of you esteemed gentlemen have either a. Any experience Wallis casting a waggler or b. Any thoughts about whether it would work?

Best regards,

TC

[Moley]

Hi Timothy

Without seeing what you are doing casting wise this could be difficult. Also how good are you with the traditional Avon or Stick, there is a reason for asking because we all develop short cuts/faults in the basic technique to suit us. For instance do you use the side cast or underarm style. Do you run the line off the top.or bottom of the pin. What size floats and even line strength/diameter can play a part.

Okay basics, generally side casting gets more distance than underarm styles for most. Obviously there is always someone who claims prodigious ability in all weathers at all times. Ho hum the truth is a sudden gust of wind or just a lapse in concentration results in pe prodigious tangles......it happens to everyone!

Any claims to the contrary should be regarded as wishful thinking, if being generous or just plain bollockian, a special language developed by internet warriors. Sadly the later seem to be on the increase in this climate of mendacity and mediocrity we are currently ' enjoying'.

So having got that stated let's consider the Fat Bloke Techniques and tips:

1. Run the line off the top of the pin.

2. Use Maxima line about 4lb breaking strain as any lighter can be a tanglers nightmare. Again no doubt some will claim to get away with really light line......yeah right. The line choice and breaking strain given is the result of years of frustration and exhorting various deities for help/ forgiveness and why me's. So take it as read. Medium thickness line works best pour moi.

3. Slow down your casting stroke as to go too quickly results in tears before bed time and a veritable Gordian Knot. Yep Alexander the Great knot resolution is the only way if you do get knotted, so to speak. Therefore slow it all down just to preserve what sanity you have left.

4. Specifically with the waggler, as requested Timothy, hold the float in the same hand you hook your thumb over the line to pull it from the reel. Yes experts say hold the hook like the Matchmen do when Stick Float Casting okay for said float, or not at all letting it all swing loose. Think once, think twice, think knots here. So hold the float, ensuring it has sufficient weight in its own right and cast as usual pulling the line swinging the rod and releasing the float. The reason the float is held and not the hook link is to ensure said float acts like a waggler should, leading the way and not following like a top and bottom set up does. Try it and hopefully what has been said makes sense. If the float is too light all will not be well in your Wallis Casting World resulting in bad words turning the air blue, just as a coach load of nuns arrive on the river bank to take in the view etc.

5. Notes on reel control might be worthy of consideration at this point too. Believe it or not the best Wallis Casting Pin is not always the most free running, avoiding bearing reels if your sanity is to be preserved. Personally Fat Bloke uses proper Pins like the ubiquitous Pop, that delivers a decent start up inertia, controlled by the little finger, not the thumb. This is because a hand above the reel instantly ensures a better rod balance in the hand. Try it and see the veracity of this claim. As you already know Wallis Casting is all about timing and balance but also about doing the little things which help achieve serendipity.

Hopefully this drivel is not like teaching Grandma to suck eggs, as even if only some of it is utilised it will have proven to be a meaningful exercise. By the by it has taken Fatty the best part of forty years to learn how to fish the waggler with some modicum of competency and still learning.

No doubt there will be those who debate some if not all written above but in mitigation works for me.


So that's it and please let me know if any of it is helpful Timothy.

As ever,.....


Moley
.

[MWithell]

Thanks Moley. Quite apart from your giving a very detailed answer to Timothy's question, you've fitted a lot of other helpful information into a few paragraphs, a lot of which is new to me.

[Crucian]

I’ll second that, well done Moley, very informative

[Timothy Claypole]

Hi Timothy

Without seeing what you are doing casting wise this could be difficult. Also how good are you with the traditional Avon or Stick, there is a reason for asking because we all develop short cuts/faults in the basic technique to suit us. For instance do you use the side cast or underarm style. Do you run the line off the top.or bottom of the pin. What size floats and even line strength/diameter can play a part.

Okay basics, generally side casting gets more distance than underarm styles for most. Obviously there is always someone who claims prodigious ability in all weathers at all times. Ho hum the truth is a sudden gust of wind or just a lapse in concentration results in pe prodigious tangles......it happens to everyone!

Any claims to the contrary should be regarded as wishful thinking, if being generous or just plain bollockian, a special language developed by internet warriors. Sadly the later seem to be on the increase in this climate of mendacity and mediocrity we are currently ' enjoying'.

So having got that stated let's consider the Fat Bloke Techniques and tips:

1. Run the line off the top of the pin.

2. Use Maxima line about 4lb breaking strain as any lighter can be a tanglers nightmare. Again no doubt some will claim to get away with really light line......yeah right. The line choice and breaking strain given is the result of years of frustration and exhorting various deities for help/ forgiveness and why me's. So take it as read. Medium thickness line works best pour moi.

3. Slow down your casting stroke as to go too quickly results in tears before bed time and a veritable Gordian Knot. Yep Alexander the Great knot resolution is the only way if you do get knotted, so to speak. Therefore slow it all down just to preserve what sanity you have left.

4. Specifically with the waggler, as requested Timothy, hold the float in the same hand you hook your thumb over the line to pull it from the reel. Yes experts say hold the hook like the Matchmen do when Stick Float Casting okay for said float, or not at all letting it all swing loose. Think once, think twice, think knots here. So hold the float, ensuring it has sufficient weight in its own right and cast as usual pulling the line swinging the rod and releasing the float. The reason the float is held and not the hook link is to ensure said float acts like a waggler should, leading the way and not following like a top and bottom set up does. Try it and hopefully what has been said makes sense. If the float is too light all will not be well in your Wallis Casting World resulting in bad words turning the air blue, just as a coach load of nuns arrive on the river bank to take in the view etc.

5. Notes on reel control might be worthy of consideration at this point too. Believe it or not the best Wallis Casting Pin is not always the most free running, avoiding bearing reels if your sanity is to be preserved. Personally Fat Bloke uses proper Pins like the ubiquitous Pop, that delivers a decent start up inertia, controlled by the little finger, not the thumb. This is because a hand above the reel instantly ensures a better rod balance in the hand. Try it and see the veracity of this claim. As you already know Wallis Casting is all about timing and balance but also about doing the little things which help achieve serendipity.

Hopefully this drivel is not like teaching Grandma to suck eggs, as even if only some of it is utilised it will have proven to be a meaningful exercise. By the by it has taken Fatty the best part of forty years to learn how to fish the waggler with some modicum of competency and still learning.

No doubt there will be those who debate some if not all written above but in mitigation works for me.


So that's it and please let me know if any of it is helpful Timothy.

As ever,.....


Moley
.

Dear Moley,

What a terrific answer to my question! Thank you for taking the time to set it all out so clearly.

I am in full agreement with you in points 1. and 2. above, and for the most part 3. I often use a large bolo type float (think big Avon with a bigger tip for better visibility on a long trot). I usually cast from the side, but on occasions underarm if restricted by vegetation. I also favour a proper pin, and out of the four true centrepins I own I enjoy casting the most with my Conquest.

The "Aha!" moment for me was the comment about making sure the waggler behaves as it is intended to: leading the way, not following. Of course! That makes perfect sense. I had been trying to think through the way a waggler behaves when you cast one, and that little nugget has done the trick.

I will have a go at casting with my hand ahead of the reel as you suggest. I'm quite comfortable with middle and index finger on the backplate, ring and pinky finger tucked behind, thumb hovering over spool lip, but I'm open to trying a new technique. At the very least 40yrs of practise should not be overlooked by a relative novice such as I.

Presumably the usual technique of braking the spool before the float lands in order to allow the line below the float to straighten and land neatly still applies? I will have a go with some weighted floats to begin with and build up from there as I improve. It's a funny business, but I have a slight bloody-mindedness about trying to do with a centrepin what contemporary fishing doctrine says cannot or should not be done. Once the grayling fishing is done for the season, I shall attempt to catch tench and carp using a float fished with a centrepin, and then transfer my attention to barbel later in the year.

Many thanks again good sir, and no eggs were sucked, cracked, boiled or fried (but maybe laid) during the course of this communication! One egg was most certainly scrambled and fed to my poorly hound, but I have checked with Grandma and she has agreed that given the mitigating circumstances there shall be no reprisals on this occasion. I have been warned though. Oh dear!

Best,

TC

[Fredline]

Ok the line is from the bottom of the spool but it is shown simply and clearly.

[Timothy Claypole]

Ok the line is from the bottom of the spool but it is shown simply and clearly.

Ah, now... at risk of sounding like a fishing fascist, that is not a Wallis cast in my book (nothing to do with line off the bottom either). The example in the video may work with a heavy lure or a lead weight, but certainly not a float.

TC

[Dave Burr]

Ok the line is from the bottom of the spool but it is shown simply and clearly.

Ah, now... at risk of sounding like a fishing fascist, that is not a Wallis cast in my book (nothing to do with line off the bottom either). The example in the video may work with a heavy lure or a lead weight, but certainly not a float.

TC

With respect, it does.

I don't do Wallis Casts, I do Burr's Best Effort Casts and some of them land where I aimed. I'm certain that, to the observer, I look like someone balancing on an invisible ball whilst swatting a wasp away as I direct traffic with the other arm but it works for me and, whenever I try to alter my efforts to a more defined and successful way, I spend more time unpicking bunches of tangles.

Just get the bait in the water, practice will improve your technique. I see little difference in casting a top and bottom float to a waggler other than holding it back at the end of the cast for a better trot when T & Bing.

[Timothy Claypole]

Ok the line is from the bottom of the spool but it is shown simply and clearly.

Ah, now... at risk of sounding like a fishing fascist, that is not a Wallis cast in my book (nothing to do with line off the bottom either). The example in the video may work with a heavy lure or a lead weight, but certainly not a float.

TC

With respect, it does.

I don't do Wallis Casts, I do Burr's Best Effort Casts and some of them land where I aimed. I'm certain that, to the observer, I look like someone balancing on an invisible ball whilst swatting a wasp away as I direct traffic with the other arm but it works for me and, whenever I try to alter my efforts to a more defined and successful way, I spend more time unpicking bunches of tangles.

Just get the bait in the water, practice will improve your technique. I see little difference in casting a top and bottom float to a waggler other than holding it back at the end of the cast for a better trot when T & Bing.

Hello Dave,

I'm happy it works for you, and it does sound like your casting has an added comedy value which, I imagine, must add to its charm

I'm not here to debate or argue about it, and to be honest I wasn't asking the question "How do you Wallis Cast?" but "Can it be done well with a Waggler?" Moley had already very kindly and comprehensively answered my question when a video about "How to Wallis cast" appeared. No problem there: it was tangential rather than unrelated. That I don't cast that way and wouldn't call it a Wallis cast is by-the-by.

It is was it is (or perhaps it isn't what it is if you prefer).

TC

PS I'll just add that as far as my fishing goes, the artistry and technique of casting well are part and parcel of the overall angling package. A whole load of the fun for me is an excellently executed Wallis cast, thus if I wanted to "just get the bait in the water" I would not bother with centrepins or trotting.

[Dave Burr]

Ok the line is from the bottom of the spool but it is shown simply and clearly.

Ah, now... at risk of sounding like a fishing fascist, that is not a Wallis cast in my book (nothing to do with line off the bottom either). The example in the video may work with a heavy lure or a lead weight, but certainly not a float.

TC

With respect, it does.

I don't do Wallis Casts, I do Burr's Best Effort Casts and some of them land where I aimed. I'm certain that, to the observer, I look like someone balancing on an invisible ball whilst swatting a wasp away as I direct traffic with the other arm but it works for me and, whenever I try to alter my efforts to a more defined and successful way, I spend more time unpicking bunches of tangles.

Just get the bait in the water, practice will improve your technique. I see little difference in casting a top and bottom float to a waggler other than holding it back at the end of the cast for a better trot when T & Bing.

Hello Dave,

I'm happy it works for you, and it does sound like your casting has an added comedy value which, I imagine, must add to its charm

I'm not here to debate or argue about it, and to be honest I wasn't asking the question "How do you Wallis Cast?" but "Can it be done well with a Waggler?" Moley had already very kindly and comprehensively answered my question when a video about "How to Wallis cast" appeared. No problem there: it was tangential rather than unrelated. That I don't cast that way and wouldn't call it a Wallis cast is by-the-by.

It is was it is (or perhaps it isn't what it is if you prefer).

TC

PS I'll just add that as far as my fishing goes, the artistry and technique of casting well are part and parcel of the overall angling package. A whole load of the fun for me is an excellently executed Wallis cast, thus if I wanted to "just get the bait in the water" I would not bother with centrepins or trotting.

I wasn't trying to hijack your post Timothy and I agree that Squire Moley comprehensively answered your question. If doing the perfect Wallis Cast is your aim then I hope you crack it