Groundbait, loose-feed, neither or both?

[Riparian]

Bream, Tench and Carp - I don't have a problem with ground-baiting for them, but when it comes to Roach, I know that this is the weak point in my game. I spend a fair bit of time trying to catch better Roach - of which, more in a moment - but with a notable lack of success in modern times. Generally I'm float-fishing close in but trying avoid the two and three ounce things. Living in The Fens, I've accepted that there aren't many Roach above eight ounces anyway, not any more, but I'm never confident that I'm getting the additional feeding thing right. I tend to use breadpaste, sometimes sweetcorn or worm, to sort out better fish but would like to know what others do - does anyone have strong views about never putting in balls of ground-bait for Roach in still or slowly flowing waters?

[Catfish.017]

I usually base my approach with regard to the colour (or lack of it ) in the water. Plenty of colour and you can get away with 'balling it' though I still prefer to feed chopped worm and casters if I have any. I use big worms too both for feed and bait. A pound roach can manage a big lob quite easily. Clear water is more difficult and I find feeding hemp is a better proposition. It isn't necessary to use hemp on the hook, a lump of flake seems to work well for me. But when I have used hemp on the hook, curiously the better fish have been well off the bottom, an occasional pounder taken 'on the drop' being the cue to shallow up.

[Riparian]

Thanks Catfish - some food for thought there. On the fen drains and rivers these days an eight ounce Roach is a good one, so I guess it would have to be a lob's tail. I have used worms for Roach in the past, and quiver-tipped in winter it was the best option on the lower Great Ouse, but the increase in Perch means that you will mostly get those instead now. For some reason I find that paste works better than flake more often than not, and my father was successful with cheese paste for Roach. Whatever form of bread I'm using, I tend to feed mashed bread little and often.

Hemp definitely still attracts them. I either use it or tares on the hook, and this will take fish better than those you can catch in the same swim on maggots. But I haven't seen a one pound fish in many years and talking to matchmen, they can't recall one either. I might be after something that no longer exists!

[Santiago]

For the bigger roach on the Thames I find a static bait works best, either laying on or by touch legering with a small feeder; both over a small bed of hemp. Hook bait either tares, corn or bread flake. There's a rather nice episode of 'Out of Town ' where Jack Hargreaves targets late season larger roach by quiver tipping with bread flake and a small feeder!

But if float fishing like trotting most of the books I 've read suggest trotting with maggots, hemp or bread flake, and when bites and fish are plentiful, the better roach can be caught by deepening up and running the float through a little slower ; and I've noticed the size of the roach increase when I've done this. Also the bigger ones tend to be the last to bite just in the last hour before sunset and as it gets dark. So if you leave too early or only fish during the day, then you are most likely missing the opportunity of a bigger roach. As alluded to above, catching the bigger ones is not really about bait as it is time and techniques etc.

[Stathamender]

Back through the years I go wandering once again, back to the seasons of my youth, I recall.....that the old timers then used fresh white crumb mixed with Carnation milk and lightly compressed into a ball when fishing with bread punch. Never done it myself but I mean to try some day.

[Riparian]

Back through the years I go wandering once again, back to the seasons of my youth, I recall.....that the old timers then used fresh white crumb mixed with Carnation milk and lightly compressed into a ball when fishing with bread punch. Never done it myself but I mean to try some day.

How many people even use a bread punch now? I have one waiting patiently in my old Stewart box but have not used it in many years. Yet I now recall that one caught better than average roach if one persisted with it. I didn't know about Carnation milk but some people used to use powdered milk as an additive to the groundbait - no doubt it achieved a similar effect.

[MGs]

I've given up groundbaiting. It seems to attract more small fish than I would like. For my roach fishing I loose feed hemp and groats. A bunch of groats on the hook seem to work well, as do tares

[Santiago]

I used my bread punch this winter for roach fishing and had quite a few.

[Olly]

The punch seems to have 'come back' as far as fishing goes. Not only punched bread but other pastes like Old Ghost etc & meat esp for carp.
I like to colour the clear water if I can - crumb & molehill earth or potting compost works. As to small fish, esp minnows, loads of maggot fill them up - so they stop feeding.
An open feeder with crust on the hook used to be the bait in autumn & winter for Thames roach with straight forward ledgered cheese on the hook in August/September.
I had one exceptional day on the Avon many many moons ago on feedered crust having 17 fish all around the 2lb mark. Last season it did a 3lb+ fish in the exact same area. Day ticket it was/is?

[Riparian]

Breadflake used to catch me lots of fish but for some reason breadpaste has caught me more in recent years - not just roach but bream as well. And there is satisfaction to be had in getting the paste 'just right', balancing the staleness of the bread with the amount of water before you begin kneading it... I quite like the idea of chucking in some molehill, though.

As for maggots, I confess that I resent paying the exorbitant price these days.

I also have to confess that 17 two-pounders is seventeen two-pounders more than I have seen in my life!