Leonard, F.E. Thomas or ???

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2wood
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Leonard, F.E. Thomas or ???

Post by 2wood »

I hope this is the right place to get eyes on this post.

I recently purchased an old fishing rod. There was a tag attached to it where the previous owner identified it as an F.E. Thomas split bamboo surf rod. It is 7ft 3" in length. There is a patent date on the reel seat - 5/31/1880. That and the workmanship and materials convinced him that it was made by Thomas at the turn of the century. I didn't pay much for it at the online auction, about $100 with shipping. The pictures didn't convince me of the maker, but except for some loose and missing guides and wraps and darkened varnish, it was a nice-looking rod.

While I awaited its arrival, I started researching. I have a dozen books on old rods and reels and almost every issue of Keane's Rods and Tackle, but, except for some reel seats that "looked" like the one on the rod, I struck out. Then I started Googling the patent date on the reel seat. The only hit was for a fly rod currently on eBay that had the same reel seat. It has positive identification as an early Leonard 3-piece fly rod - 15' 7". I also found an old (1880) Leonard rod with similar-looking features to my rod - I recently purchased an old fishing rod. There was a tag attached to it where the previous owner identified it as an F.E. Thomas split bamboo surf rod. It is 7ft 3" in length. There is a patent date on the reel seat - 3/31/1880. That and the workmanship and materials convinced him that it was made by Thomas at the turn of the century. I didn't pay much for it at the online auction, about $100 with shipping. The pictures didn't convince me of the maker, but except for some loose and missing guides and wraps and darkened varnish, it was a nice-looking rod.

While I awaited its arrival, I started researching. I have a dozen books on old rods and reels and almost every issue of Keane's Rods and Tackle, but, except for some reel seats that "looked" like the one on the rod, I struck out. Then I started Googling the patent date on the reel seat. The only hit was for a fly rod currently on eBay that had the same reel seat. It has positive identification as an early Leonard 3-piece fly rod - 15' 7". I found another Leonard rod at https://www.riveroflifefarm.com/leonard ... 1880-1881/
with features similar to my rod, particularly the reel-seat.

The rod arrived and I'm still happy I bid on it. It is well made but in need of restoration. Before spending the money, I need input as to what I have and where to get the materials. I'll definitely need a source for two bell guides to replace the missing ones closest to the butt end and instructions as to how to measure them. The loose ones are smaller than the ones attached in the middle so I'm pretty sure I need the next larger size to the middle guides. Homel's "Fishing Rods" has an ad indicating that they came in sizes 4 to 10. The fixed reel leads up between the guides so that line, presumably from a Nottingham-type reel can enter the double entry top from either side, minimizing the set occurring from fishing pressure.

Thank you for any information/advice provided. Following are pictures of the rod
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https://i.imgur.com/DpI3vZm.jpg
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Last edited by 2wood on Wed Sep 20, 2023 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Rod Fisher
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Re: Leonard, F.E. Thomas or ???

Post by Rod Fisher »

2wood wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 1:28 am I recently purchased an old fishing rod. There is a patent date on the reel seat - 3/31/1880.

While I awaited its arrival, I started researching. I started Googling the patent date on the reel seat. The only hit was for a fly rod currently on eBay that had the same reel seat.
The fixed reel leads up between the guides so that line, presumably from a Nottingham-type reel can enter the double entry top from either side, minimizing the set occurring from fishing pressure.

Thank you for any information/advice provided. Following are pictures of the rod
Congratulations on your purchase. You may get more Google hits with the right date; it says "MAY 31 1880". There are several discussions about the seemingly fictional patent at the classic fly rod forum.
I think Americans tended to use multipliers wherever possible rather than Nottingham reels.
"Keep out of sight. Trout has no eyebrows and can see up." - Forest and Stream 1904.

“A man may read books and get the best advice possible, but he will profit little by one or the other without practice.” - William Bailey

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2wood
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Re: Leonard, F.E. Thomas or ???

Post by 2wood »

Thanks for catching my mistake; I've corrected it here and at the classic forum. I can only attribute making a mistake on such an important fact to my advanced years and bad eyes. I'm glad I added a picture highlighting my error.
As for Googling, I didn't search with the month or day, just the year, since I could miss variations on month/day, like May 31st. Here's another Leonard rod I just found - http://existentialangler.blogspot.com/2 ... almon.html Looks a lot like my rod, except this is a fly rod and mine is not. Look at pictures 3.4.5 there and mine is a dead ringer. What mystifies me most is why there is no other marking on my rod.
Maybe Leonard made it for himself to go saltwater fishing or lake fishing for very large fish.

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2wood
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Re: Leonard, F.E. Thomas or ???

Post by 2wood »

Here is an update on my rod, now definitely identified as a Leonard.

After looking at ya Classic Fly Rod Formum member's 1905 catalog and an 1894 Mills catalog on the Split Cane Info website, I decided to take another look at my rod. BTW, the reel seat is said to be a Mills patent in 1894. Pictures of a one-piece rod actually were two pieces (bottom, top), so I twisted at the likely place for a ferrule and it out popped the top from the bottom. I had been swayed by the auction house shipping it in one piece, which costs more due to the length. The ferrules are in great shape!!

Here are pictures:

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Here are the dimensions: Length of bottom - 20", Length of top, from ferrule shoulder - 69"
Weight of rod - about 19 oz allowing .25 oz for missing bell guides and missing wrappings. Do you have access to an earlier catalog that shows a rod with these dimensions?

The varnish is dark and has chips/alligatoring in quite a few places. Plus the darkness hides the color of the bamboo and wraps.
The bell guides measure 1-11/16", 1-15/16", and for the missing two - 2-1/8"

I no longer am skilled in rod refurbishing, due to my eyesight, which is bothered by sheets of vitreous humor moving in front of my retina and arthritis.
Therefore, I am open to offers from forum members to either buy the rod or refurbish it for me.

As to the missing maker's mark, the 15'7" fly rod on eBay does not have one either.

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